Gaming Digital Combat Simulator Thread

[Urwumpe]

Except that apparently, the A-10 can't carry AGM-88 HARM missiles like it could in the game. So, everything I learned as a kid about how to handle SAM sites no longer applies....

The best you can do with a A-10C is to stay low and away from any SAM with more than 5 SM range. Leave this job to the Wild Weasels.

Also, in my opinion after a few missions, the A-10C is wildly different to the A-10A. The A-10A is a simple flying gun, the A-10C is more complex and much more³ capable. A successful mission is now much more depending on proper use of the new digital systems. You have to master the sensor pod, but with this sensor pod, you can also examine your targets from much further distance. The datalink lets you know of new targets quickly. The digital stores management allows you to set parameters for deploying the weapons in all aspects, helping you focus on the delivery. With the A-10C you can fly with much less risk - if you manage to stay focussed on the battlefield and not get lost in the displays, like I experienced often in the past weeks.

My current favorite mission is the "Smerch Hunting" mission.

 

[ex-orbinaut]

A-10C sounds interesting, going by the above post...

Three more flights since last post. Finally had enough confidence to try my hand jousting with SAMs, totally unarmed with the express objective of practicing evasion, but not without first digging out the excellent book I read quite a few years ago, Thud Ridge, by Colonel Jack Broughton, packed with encounters with SA-2 "Guidelines", and seeing what the experts had to say here. Seemed to be more or less in agreement, so I set up a quick access on the stick to the threat missile padlock and planned the first mission against the SA-3 "Goa", only with chaff and ECM pods...

The first attempt was a flop, the SAMs did not even launch. Yet another important line in the user manual, for those who use the mission editor...

Note: For Surface to Air Missile (SAM) batteries like SA-10, SA-11, etc., all the needed units of the SAM battery must all be part of the same Vehicle Group.

Success, next day. The radar guided SAMs burn through the ECM and lead-track to you. The SA-3 seems to launch in two staggered pairs. Evaded the first two, but was all out of energy for the next pair. I assume that the proximity fuze detonated on one of them, and to be brief, I have got to say I really love the progressive damage model, as the flight control system deteriorated over the next few minutes until I had to eject.

Third mission; IR SAMs. Piece of cake against four SA-9 "Gaskin" missiles (even had the opportunity to pause and get a screenshot) in the "sterile" test conditions, though the threat here is the (expected) lack of an audible lock warning, which I can imagine makes them deadly in a confusing combat environment, when they catch you unawares. Still, collected some more minor damage from yet another proximity fuze detonation... :lol:

Here's the screenshot. Thoroughly enjoying this sim...

 

[Hielor]

The radar guided SAMs burn through the ECM and lead-track to you.

Consensus on the interwebs seems to be that ECM doesn't actually do anything in DCS yet.

---------- Post added 10-17-13 at 02:30 ---------- Previous post was 10-16-13 at 19:10 ----------

Turns out my X45 is fine, I had just never updated my motherboard drivers so the USB port it was plugged into isn't working. It's nice to be able to have a full HOTAS setup--being able to fully control the Shkval without taking my hands off the controls (including a rotary knob for target size, which even the vaunted HOTAS Warthog doesn't have) makes attack runs a whole lot smoother.

 

[Urwumpe]

Turns out my X45 is fine, I had just never updated my motherboard drivers so the USB port it was plugged into isn't working. It's nice to be able to have a full HOTAS setup--being able to fully control the Shkval without taking my hands off the controls (including a rotary knob for target size, which even the vaunted HOTAS Warthog doesn't have) makes attack runs a whole lot smoother.

Thats an unrealistic number of switches on the stick for a Su-25T. :lol:

But you are right, for most other aircraft, the X45 is perfectly fine. Even the Mi-8 can be flown great with the X45. But if you want to focus on the A-10C (and you need to focus on one plane in DCS, you can't learn them all equally well), the HOTAS Warthog is more interesting.

If I see this correctly, the Su-25T uses a standard stick for all Russian combat aircraft. The throttle has not many functions there, most is on the flight stick, and the stick is about the same as the X45 in the number of switches, with just one coolie hat less, And with many less important functions being on the lower part of the stick.

 

[Hielor]

Spent the last 5 hours trying to start the SU-25T campaign. It's a lot harder to blow up stuff that's shooting back.

MANPADs are possibly my worst enemy. Can't really use SEAD against them effectively, and they shoot fairly rapidly.

Seems that usually I can't seem to take anything out before I bite the dust. The Shkval doesn't seem to lock on to anything more than 8km away. Combine that with the Vikhir's aim circle switching sides every time I fire...

My last attempt, I was making good progress through the enemy lines when I took a SAM shot that happily ignored all my countermeasures, lit my #2 engine on fire, took out my hydraulics, and gave me a nice fuel leak.

Still managed to limp most of the way back to base and was gaining some altitude so I'd be able to glide to the runway before I ran out of fuel...when my airplane promptly exploded. WTF.

Maybe I'll try again tomorrow...

---------- Post added at 04:05 ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 ----------

Might help if I remeber that Vikhirs are laser-guided, not TV-guided.

Oops. That probably wasn't helping my success ratio.

 

[Urwumpe]

MANPADs are possibly my worst enemy. Can't really use SEAD against them effectively, and they shoot fairly rapidly.

It also seems like, contrary to the bigger brothers, the MANPADS don't run out of ammo.

 

[Hielor]

It also seems like, contrary to the bigger brothers, the MANPADS don't run out of ammo.

Being organic in nature, maybe they have access to Hammerspace (warning, TVTropes link) and use it for ammo storage?

---------- Post added 10-19-13 at 00:52 ---------- Previous post was 10-18-13 at 12:01 ----------

Successfully finished the first sortie of the campaign. Currently sitting on the ramp waiting for repairs to finish so I can head out again.

Method of dealing with MANPADS: Kh-29T. The MANPADs (usually) came in groups with a truck; lock on the truck with the Kh-29T, fire, head the other direction. Deal with the weight imbalance while you find the next one, repeat. Downside of this method is that you can't lock up the truck with the Shkval from the Kh-29T's max range. I suspect a Kh-29L would be better, so you could laser-designate from farther away, but since you have to stay on course for the laser I'm not sure if that will require you to get closer before impact. Will need to test. Once you're out of Kh-29Ts, Vikhrs seem to be the way to go--it won't lock the infantry, but you can spot them on the Shkval when you're zoomed in and trigger the laser manually.

Vikhrs work fine for AAA and light armor, but they seem to suck pretty hard against tanks. One of the tanks in this mission has taken at least three direct hits and is still going string. S-25Ls take them out in one hit, but it seems like overkill and kind of a waste.

Also, Vikhrs launched from the left pylon don't seem to work 80% of the time--it'll intercept the beam, but then fly off to the side and be worthless. Right pylon didn't seem to have the same issue. The left pylon's targeting reticle seemed to be a lot farther off center than the right's, so I guess that's related?

Also, firing a Vikhr seems to trigger a rather longer-than-necessary delay before you can fire the next one. Turning off the laser allows you to fire again (laser turns on automatically when you fire one).

Wingman followed me back to base, landed, and spent five minutes taxiing to the absolute-farthest hangar. While I was sitting here repairing, I took a look at him...he hasn't fired a single weapon. Apparently you have to order your wingman to engage, otherwise he just derps around and does nothing?

Sounds like he's refueling right now, so I'll see if I can coax him to follow me back into the air in a couple minutes. Not sure if he'll be able to get back out of that hangar...

---------- Post added at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was at 00:52 ----------

Oops.

Started takeoff from the wrong runway, didn't realize it until it was too late. Couldn't get speed to take off, couldn't slow down in time.

Guess I'll try again...

And no, the wingman never did come out of the hangar. Useless.



---------- Post added at 01:46 ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 ----------

Kh-29L has a notably shorter range than the Kh-29T, and you have to stay aligned the whole time, so I suspect the Kh-29T is still superior. Plus, you might be able to fire it without actually needing to lock the truck...

The Kh-25ML has a theoretically longer range, but I'm not sure it has the blast radius to take out the MANPADs from the truck, and it also only seems to have a longer range if you're at high altitude (which doesn't apply in this first mission since there's clouds).

Most recent attempt, wingman got himself shot down strafing a SAM site (wtf? but hey, at least he tried) and I managed to fly into a mountain while I was watching him get himself killed...

Also, I've gotten a lot better with the Vikhr. The "trick" is to make sure that your target, your missile, and your plane all stay roughly collinear, otherwise the missile won't be able to follow the beam anymore. This thread has some diagrams that might help the understanding: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101574

 

[vlad32768]

Spent the last 5 hours trying to start the SU-25T campaign. It's a lot harder to blow up stuff that's shooting back.

MANPADs are possibly my worst enemy. Can't really use SEAD against them effectively, and they shoot fairly rapidly.

Seems that usually I can't seem to take anything out before I bite the dust. The Shkval doesn't seem to lock on to anything more than 8km away. Combine that with the Vikhir's aim circle switching sides every time I fire...

An old campaign may be too difficult for the modern version of Su-25t model (or any other plane).
In DCS World and other ED sims, weapon effectiveness may vary from version to version. Some examples:
1. The first version of Su-25T (it was a separate game) had a simplified Shkval, which was much easier to use. Shkval was totally rewritten for the Ka-50 model and became more realistic and harder to use.
2. The Sukhogrus IRCM jammer was effective in the first version of Su-25T; now it's useless.
3. High-explosive rockets (S-8, Hydra etc) were useless in some versions of the game;
4. The first version of A-10C had very powerful CBUs, now they are useless. There is a mission in the A-10C campaign where you're to destroy 3 APC groups with 4 CBUs, now you must reload Mavericks (and tune DSMS) before take-off.
5. APC machineguns were more dangerous than Vulcans or Shilkas in some versions of the game

etc.

 

[Hielor]

Thanks for the warning. However, I'm stubborn, and decided to give it another try, and ended up being very successful (score 296, results 100 (%?)).

Red team (good guys) lost 7 vehicles, and the blue team (bad guys) lost 2 helicopters, 5 air defences and 49 vehicles. My personal score was 1 helicopter, 5 air defences, and 20 vehicles. I'm not sure what exactly counts as an "air defence" versus a vehicle--my wingman took out 3 AAA and one SAM SA-8 and those were apparently all counted as "vehicles."

Unfortunately, the wingman took a few MANPADs early on and ended up limping back to base on one engine, but the AAA/SAMs he took out would've really messed up my day later so he did his job. He landed fine and went and hid in the hangar. I took some damage from a near-miss MANPAD, but nothing major.

Seems that the best way to fly this mission is to have your wingman set up for SEAD and order him to engage air defences as you approach the engagement area. He seems a whole lot better at doing that than I am, and anything he takes out is one less item I have to deal with.

My primary goal was to take out the tanks on the enemy front lines so that the tanks on my side wouldn't have to deal with them. I was usually too busy dying to notice previously, but apparently the good guy tanks are a whole lot worse at shooting the bad guy tanks than vice versa, so if you don't clear the way for them they'll get themselves killed and you have to take out everything on your own. However, if you take out the tanks for them, they can mow through all the stuff like trucks, AAA, APCs, etc that you would need to spend time/ammo killing.

So, basic strategy I used was to work my way from front to back through the enemy lines. First priority was SAM sites that were close enough to the enemy tanks to prevent me from getting a good run on the tanks. Second priority was the enemy tanks themselves. I didn't start cleaning up other things until all the enemy tanks were gone. I ignored AAA and just let the friendly tanks take care of it, which seems to have worked out all right--I had thought I took a bit of damage from AAA, but the log shows my only incoming damage being from the near-miss MANPAD. The helicopter(s -- I got a hit on the other but didn't get credit for the kill) were targets of opportunity that got in my way during one of my runs, so I quickly switched to Air-to-Air mode and shot them with the R-60s.

So yeah, previously I had been thinking less tactically than I should've been. The right attitude for a close air support mission is to provide the air support for the ground forces rather than trying to clean up everything yourself...

I also seem to have gotten a lot better with Vikhrs--only 2 misses of 16 shots this time around.

If anyone's curious to watch the track, I've put it at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2437888/dcs/ATO A.03.3.trk -- I'm sure I didn't do things perfectly, but if anyone else is trying the mission and struggling, it might help. You can fast-forward (with ctrl+z) to 8:39:40 or so--that's when I first successfully tell the wingman to engage and things get started.

Edit: I just tried watching the track, and it shows me plowing into the ground during the second pass. Yeah, that totally didn't happen. Nevermind about the track, I guess...
Edit2: Going through the part where it showed me crashing again at x1 speed shows me not-crashing. So I guess you need to use x1 speed during maneuvering...

Also, I might be hooked.

 

[Hielor]

Finished the second mission in the campaign; it was a lot easier than the first (although I'm sure some of that is due to my getting better). Mission objective was just to take out a handful of artillery. Easy enough--took out the SAMs, then the artillery, and then with all the leftover munitions I had I went ahead and took out nine MBTs and a few other choice targets as well. Friendly ground forces were stationary in this one, so it wasn't quite as thoroughly mopping the floor with them as the previous mission.

The wingman proved his worth once again by taking out three AAA sites that weren't even near the primary objectives, and then flying into a mountain. I'm not really sure what I should do about wingmen--any tips from other people who've found ways to make them useful?

I might need to practice landing a bit. I was trying to actually do the proper approach by the waypoints, but ended up a bit low and slow (I'm fairly certain the ILS implementation is broken) and then discovered there was a building right off the approach end of the runway in my glide path. Getting up and around it caused me to stall onto the runway since the engines couldn't spool up in time. Made a rather embarrassing show of sliding down the runway in flames before I ejected and ended the mission. But that's okay--the plane didn't blow up before the mission ended so it didn't count as a loss

 

[ex-orbinaut]

Thanks for the exhaustive and useful debriefings! I will be taking a look at the track save before trying the campaign. Nothing like some battlefield intelligence beforehand...

Also, I've gotten a lot better with the Vikhr. The "trick" is to make sure that your target, your missile, and your plane all stay roughly collinear, otherwise the missile won't be able to follow the beam anymore. This thread has some diagrams that might help the understanding: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101574

Yes, that does stand to reason, as the Vikhr's guidance system faces backwards in order to ride the beam from the designator. I have noticed that any "twitchiness" on the stick while guiding the missile causes it to snake and porpoise through the beam and ultimately miss the target; a problem that does not affect the terminally designated laser homing weapons (S-25L). Nice detail.

Glad to see someone else would like to see buddy laser designation.

First flight after two days, and I was faced with a download of an update. The log there does not mention one change I believe I have noticed. I loaded up with the gun pods to take out some tankers and infantry in my exercise for today, and to recap on the rather complicated use of them, as I have only tried them once before. I set up the automatic gun target tracking on the weapons panel, acquired the target with the Shkval, and switched on the laser to activate PROG mode. Now, as soon as you place the gun-sight reticule on the Shkval reticule, the guns immediately start tracking the target, before firing. As far as I remember, this did not happen the first time I tried the gun pods (prior update), and they only started tracking the target point AFTER firing was initiated. Check it out, rather cool!

PS: And indeed, the Illyushin at Kobuleti now stands on its wheels, as promised in the change log, looking a bit more like this one at the north end of Jorge Chavez Intl, Lima, yesterday morning. Bringing spares for the Peruvian Air Force, no doubt...

 

[Hielor]

Major change I saw in the update was that the SU-25T trainings have all been revamped and are now actual interactive experiences rather than videos. Somehow that didn't make the patch notes.

 

[Urwumpe]

Major change I saw in the update was that the SU-25T trainings have all been revamped and are now actual interactive experiences rather than videos. Somehow that didn't make the patch notes.

Is mentioned there at the end of the DCS:World Notes.

 

[ex-orbinaut]

Did my DCS exercise early today, with the express purpose of following up a couple of comments in previous posts.

First: Vikhr effectivity against heavy armour. Set up 8 M1A2 Abrams. Went after each with a very shallow, stabilized dive from 350 meters AGL, 500 Kmh IAS, one shot at a time at 7 km distance, from different angles on the tank. Results were;

Bow on and off bow (up to approximately 40º) hit on the tank. No initial effect, the tank simply relocated. Three hits from these angles seems to be the norm to destroy it. Beam on and stern on hits. The tank smokes for a few seconds after the single hit, then blows up. Stern quarter hits, sometimes the tank survives, sometimes it does not. There appears to be an armour thickness and angular armour thickness computation in action. Nice, though in a combat situation getting an optimum angle on a tank is going to be hard work! Strike roughly across the front line, if there is one identified, perhaps?

Second: The ILS. I had not used it much up until now, preferring visual patterns (ie; emulating the 48th TFW F-111's close in pattern that I used to watch at Lakenheath years ago). I had looked up the airfield ID's before hand (there is some discrepancy between the Charts doc and the SU-25T FM doc regarding these, but the FM is the correct one in the DCS World with the Frogfoot). I also set the last waypoint special action in the ME to tune 110.3, FM modulation (Batumi's 13 LOC), in case the problem was here. Conclusion; confirmed, the ILS is absolutely broken. The bars come alive on the HSI at 23 Km, but the LOC is nowhere near sensitive enough, and behaves a bit like a you are on Back Course LOC approach (reverse sensing), though the deviation is barely perceptible. The GS works to an extent, but again, seems to lack sensitivity. Also, the LOC/GS alive indicators that are supposed to appear on the HUD are not evident in LNDG mode, as they should be. Hopefully it will get fixed.

PS: Forgot to add; a full salvo of S-8 KOM rockets (from two pods) did for an M1A2, also. Did not try with less, on this occasion.

---------------------- -------------------- -------------------

PPS: Bit intrigued by that ILS, so I made one quick unarmed scenario, in flight at 25 Km on the extended center-line of Batumi 13, to test something. If you bring up the comms menu, select ATC, then the appropriate airfield, and Request Inbound, the ILS works reasonably well. Seems to be the trick.

All the best.

 

[Hielor]

Third mission didn't go so well. Wingman went off and started shooting at SAM sites and got himself killed. Meanwhile, I took out the primary mission objective tanks and was working on other nearby targets.

I thought he'd managed to take out all the SAM sites near the objective, but apparently he'd missed (at least) one and I took a MANPAD to the left engine, setting the engine on fire and giving me a hydraulics failure. I was able to put out the fire in the engine by shutting it off, but before I started to RTB for repairs I figured I'd launch some of my longer-range ammo at the remaining air defenses since I'd probably need to jettison it anyway. Took out the offending MANPADs and a AAA site, then jettisoned everything, but wasn't able to pull up at all (I guess that's the "hydraulics failure" part of things) and I ended up flying upside down into the ground.

Apparently I took out all the mission objectives, though, because the debriefing gave me a (posthumous) 100 result and the campaign advanced favorably (although campaign deaths still shows 0, so I guess I didn't die?). I tried to watch the replay and see if I couldn't save the plane after the SAM hit, but damage apparently isn't recorded properly in the replay and I ended up plowing into the ground a lot sooner.

---------- Post added at 02:14 ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 ----------

Tried to start a fourth mission and the game just CTDed. Lost all campaign progress.

Cool.

 

[ex-orbinaut]

If anyone's curious to watch the track, I've put it at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2437888/dcs/ATO A.03.3.trk -- I'm sure I didn't do things perfectly, but if anyone else is trying the mission and struggling, it might help. You can fast-forward (with ctrl+z) to 8:39:40 or so--that's when I first successfully tell the wingman to engage and things get started.

Just watched it. Very good, you're a true CAS/COIN jockey! That loiter combat I find spooky. Don't know why, but my own inclination would have been to go after those blue forces on that southern headland first and clear that flank, coming in from over the sea and breaking west after each run. I fully believe you did it right, though, and will go about it myself in a similar fashion. Quite a long session of yours, and that would be all of DCS for me tonight. Thanks for the track save!

PS: The Frogfoot doesn't like the forward slip, eh? :lol:

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

PPS: I don't know if you are using the labels or not to aid ID of targets. I edited my labels lua file so that everything is a red or blue apostrophe that appears at 15 Km, in order to make myself work with the Shkval, yet still have a small beginner's advantage.

 

[Hielor]

Just watched it. Very good, you're a true CAS/COIN jockey!

Heh, thanks!

That loiter combat I find spooky. Don't know why, but my own inclination would have been to go after those blue forces on that southern headland first and clear that flank, coming in from over the sea and breaking west after each run.

I tried that the first time, but the problem with that approach is that the ground forces aren't hitting that area--so you'd have to take out everything there on your own, which doesn't leave much ammo left for taking out the primary objectives. As long as you're careful, you won't get in range. It does mean turning towards the mountains more, which can be dangerous if you're fully loaded, but it worked out okay.

I fully believe you did it right, though, and will go about it myself in a similar fashion. Quite a long session of yours, and that would be all of DCS for me tonight. Thanks for the track save!

No problem--if it's interesting to you I can post more.

PS: The Frogfoot doesn't like the forward slip, eh? :lol:

It's a slippery devil. "High and fast" in the Frogfoot = go around (or maybe orbit once). There's no good way to slow down in that scenario in a straight line. The forward slip is the private pilot in me showing through...just because I can land that way in a C152 doesn't mean it works in a jet!

PPS: I don't know if you are using the labels or not to aid ID of targets. I edited my labels lua file so that everything is a red or blue apostrophe that appears at 15 Km, in order to make myself work with the Shkval, yet still have a small beginner's advantage.

Yeah, I've been meaning to change it but haven't yet. I'll do that before my next mission, I think. I suspect I'll find it's not actually all that useful for target identification, since it just ends up as a giant blob of unreadable text most of the time anyway.

 

[Urwumpe]

PPS: I don't know if you are using the labels or not to aid ID of targets. I edited my labels lua file so that everything is a red or blue apostrophe that appears at 15 Km, in order to make myself work with the Shkval, yet still have a small beginner's advantage.

I fly completely without labels. Not sure if it is a good idea, since you really need to pay attention to detect a vehicle on the ground.

 

[Richy]

It's nice to see so much activity with DCS.

Is it true that you can't use DCS World only to play MP missions?
Otherwise we could once do some shooting range or something.

 

[Urwumpe]

Is it true that you can't use DCS World only to play MP missions?
Otherwise we could once do some shooting range or something.

You can play MP with just DCS:World, but you can only fly the Su-25T there. What you need is an ED Store log-in for multiplayer, not more.