General Question Docking made simple?

[martins]

I am currently writing a new MFD mode as an example for entirely script-driven MFD code. As a useful test case, I decided to do an MFD for some advanced attitude control. Among other things, it will allow automatic rotational alignment with a target dock.

It works quite nicely, but I am starting to wonder if this will make docking too simple? Will it take the fun out of one of the more challenging operations in Orbiter? On the other hand, it could be quite useful for AI missions (e.g. automatic ISS supply missions).

Are there already addons around with this functionality? What's the general opinion about it?

 

[Shadow Addict]

I think it's a good idea to add it. I'd still do fully manual dockings 99% of the time, but it'd be cool to have that integrated for the 1% when I want to use it.

 

[Zatnikitelman]

I agree, we can always play it manually if we want, but if we're doing something over and over again like building a space station or something, it can be nice to automate the operations a bit.

 

[Quick_Nick]

I believe the DGIV has automatic rendezvous and automatic docking autopilots.
I think I'd rather not see this MFD built in to Orbiter, but only as an addon. Having it built-in almost discourages new users to dock manually.

 

[mc_]

I think I'd rather not see this MFD built in to Orbiter, but only as an addon. Having it built-in almost discourages new users to dock manually.

+1

Or, maybe, some AutoDockingEnable=0/1 parameter in vessel config, so addon`s author can enable/disable it (for complex historical/realistic vessels, etc).

Anyway, "autodock" should work like "autoland" on modern aircrafts - vessel must be on a "glide path" to turn it on (IMHO).

 

[n72.75]

I believe the DGIV has automatic rendezvous and automatic docking autopilots.
I think I'd rather not see this MFD built in to Orbiter, but only as an addon. Having it built-in almost discourages new users to dock manually.

I would strongly disagree.

If you remember the addon "Redshift", I watched redshift perform two or three docking for me when I was new to orbiter because I couldn't figure out how to do it my self. After watching, I was able to figure out how to sync orbit and doc. So in a way Redshift taught me how to dock.

Along with LUA scripting I think that this would add depth to scenarios.

Remember, orbiter is a simulator not a game; simulator's require restraint.

-Matt

 

[Ark]

Sounds great. If people want the challenge, there's no requirement that they have that MFD selected.

Besides, matching rotational alignment with the existing Docking MFD only takes about 30 seconds, having an autopilot to do it doesn't take away that much from the experience.

 

[N_Molson]

It would be interesting, but would it be able to manage a "low-DV" spacecraft like the Progress-M (which is automated) ?

 

[ar81]

Graphical awareness is what makes things simple and understandable.
For example galactic map MFD gives a better idea than Orbit MFD.

Usability also helps, and in that matter Orbit MFD is more user friendly than Galactic map MFD.

My bet is that docking may also add a component of graphical awareness.
Docking may seem trivial and "too simple" for DG docking, but when you have a docking port on the top of your craft as in STS or in the rear (as in TTM24) docking becomes harder.

 

[Quick_Nick]

I would strongly disagree.

If you remember the addon "Redshift", I watched redshift perform two or three docking for me when I was new to orbiter because I couldn't figure out how to do it my self. After watching, I was able to figure out how to sync orbit and doc. So in a way Redshift taught me how to dock.

Along with LUA scripting I think that this would add depth to scenarios.

Remember, orbiter is a simulator not a game; simulator's require restraint.

-Matt

Orbiter does have a playback feature. I'd rather see Orbiter include an annotated playback of docking than this MFD.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Well, just because an MFD is available, it doesn't mean that it HAS to be used.
I flew the DGIV for about 18 months before I discovered that it had a docking autopilot. And even now, I still don't use it.
I could see a big use for it in something like TTM24, where the LANTIR is docking with the refueling station while the user is busy docking to the lander. Or a great video where multiple craft are docking simultaneously.

 

[Shadow Addict]

Well, just because an MFD is available, it doesn't mean that it HAS to be used.
I flew the DGIV for about 18 months before I discovered that it had a docking autopilot. And even now, I still don't use it.

This this this this

Nobody is forcing anybody to use an included docking AP. Some people might learn better from an AP, some from a playback, and some from just trying it on their own. There's no point in restricting those from the first group just because people from the other two don't see a need for it for themselves.

 

[KosmoKen]

Docking may seem trivial and "too simple" for DG docking, but when you have a docking port on the top of your craft as in STS or in the rear (as in TTM24) docking becomes harder.

Maybe integrating a "top-side" Linear RCS mode that shifts the axes to make it easier for STS and others that aren't forward docking? I think XR5 has that feature and it's really helpful.

 

[Goth]

I sometimes hate the final steps of docking manouvres, so this will be nice.

Anyway, "autodock" should work like "autoland" on modern aircrafts - vessel must be on a "glide path" to turn it on (IMHO).

He only talked about "automatic rotational alignment with a target".
So it's nothing that will fully automatically dock you to a port.
In this case it can't be anything but nice.

 

[Ark]

I flew the DGIV for about 18 months before I discovered that it had a docking autopilot. And even now, I still don't use it.

The DGIV has a docking autopilot? :blink:

 

[PhantomCruiser]

The DGIV has a docking autopilot? :blink:

PRO300SPEC0 Docking Auto (dock you to any ship with a docking port)
From the DGIV manual pages 17 and 18.

 

[EtherDragon]

I think it would be a useful MFD. People use MFDs to automate their flights all the time. (IMFD / TransX anyone?) So, having an MFD / AP to align to a docking port would actually be pretty useful.

 

[mjanicki]

I agree with one of the previous replies -- an automated docking can be very useful for those who are just starting out with Orbiter. When I first started with Orbiter, I learned to dock (after many failed attempts) by watching how the DG-IV docking autopilot did it. I haven't used an autopilot to dock in forever, but having such an autopilot was a great learning tool.

-- Mike

 

[Goth]

The DGIV has a docking autopilot? :blink:

You are not the only one to be surprised. :lol:

 

[eveningsky339]

Well, just because an MFD is available, it doesn't mean that it HAS to be used.
I flew the DGIV for about 18 months before I discovered that it had a docking autopilot. And even now, I still don't use it.
I could see a big use for it in something like TTM24, where the LANTIR is docking with the refueling station while the user is busy docking to the lander. Or a great video where multiple craft are docking simultaneously.

Agreed!

I think that concerns about docking become too simple are entirely valid, but no one has to use the MFD.

Take IMFD for example. Its complex autopilot programs make interplanetary trips easy in comparison to the stock Transfer MFD. However, when I want to do some hard stuff, I switch over to Transx and manually set my trajectory.

It's all up to the end user's personal preference.