Project Dragonfly Upgrade

[HAL9001]

the problem with rcs is, that rcs lin for forward and backward is only on numpad and I could stear a Main-Engine with my Joystick.
I could handel this with Fly-By-Wire, too, but then it would be slightly complicated.

 

[Moach]

actually, if this thing uses a custom DLL, it's not hard to have a dummy main thruster and redirect throttle input to the forward RCS jets....

but those should have some extra power... what if you need to move the ship to another station or something?

 

[Usquanigo]

I've never gotten so far away from my target that I've needed a main engine, and even if I did, it would be my fault, so the extra time it takes would sort of be like my punishment. lol (besides, there's the "T" key anyway )

I don't think the DF is really the thing to use for boosting orbits anyway.

For that, you could use one of Kulch's space tugs or something similar. I would permenantly dock/affix one to the core so that it could be triggered whenever needed.

(to really get fancy/ideal, it would be awesome to RC the tug from the pit of another craft without using external MFDs. instead, 'point' your MFDs to the other craft (including Camera MFD if you have it and want to use it), then open up remote control and start guiding it, dock it, then boost it, just as you would really have to. Maybe in a worst case, external MFD could be positioned overtop the ones on the ship you're in to fake it, just don't change views then. lol)

 

[Ghostrider]

Well, to solve the problem of having a main engine or not, why not dock with one?

 

[Rybec]

On the other hand, given what the craft is, if you need an extended engine burn you're doing it wrong. If you allowed the thing to drift THAT far away, go retrieve it with something else or consider the mission a failure. Or both. If you need to relocate the tug to another orbit, do it with another craft.

If you're controlling your ship by joystick, Fly By Wire's really the way to go anyway. The setup isn't that complicated, and you'll be glad you did.


After failing hard at getting my current compiler to build the default unedited Dragonfly, I started installing VC++ 2005 like the wiki tutorial says. Once I get that going I'll start releasing alpha versions, starting with the raised camera position and working my way up from there.

 

[HAL9001]

I did, but some features don't work and i want to keep my settings...

A stronger thruster would make it possible to change orbit with an built station docked in front, too.

 

[Usquanigo]

I did, but some features don't work and i want to keep my settings...

A stronger thruster would make it possible to change orbit with an built station docked in front, too.

Please don't be offended by this, as it's not my intention to offend (just my warped mind doing it's thing), but this idea reminds me of the recent Futurama episode with the Planet Vinci, where Fry tried to nail a nail with a nail.

Using a DF to boost an entire station is just not the best tool for the job. There are dedicated tugs out there which would be the way to go, or even a regular space craft.

Granted, it is a "tug" and tug boats are generally super powerful, able to move even full supertankers, however.... power is inversely proportionate to speed. Whether you're talking about a prop plane, a boat, or a wheeled vehicle, to ramp up the torque, you reduce revs (on wheeled vehicles, reduce prop pitch on a plane which is akin to low gear on a car) at the drive wheels and go slower.

That's a conundrum in space. At best, I would say the RCS should be powerful, maybe with at least 3 settings. We already have standard and vernier, maybe add one another level at the big end, a little more powerful than standard for dealing with large objects.

But then again.... this is orbit. Just like you speed up to slow down, nothing happens quickly at 7600m/s lol, and even weak thrusters will still get that massive module moving.

The greatest problem, IMO, with the stock DF - aside from the Apollo era innards - is the CoG shift doesn't really work (even when it's all powered up and working). that's why I recommended a longer tailboom, and moving the front RCS as far forward as possible, even potentially putting them on booms to extend forward when a load is present.

(picture the holding a model of the DF with a heavy module attached, turn it sideways - your thum ends up on the body, and your fingers hold the tail, and you apply pressure with your fingers against your thumb. If your thumb is too weak, you will pivot around the front hanging mass - it's hard to explain, but it makes sense in my head, a longer boom would give more leverage for the computer to create a fake CoG shift, and moving the front RCS forward would make it even easier and more effective still)

 

[Rybec]

The greatest problem, IMO, with the stock DF - aside from the Apollo era innards - is the CoG shift doesn't really work (even when it's all powered up and working).

Well, for one thing, it's a computer compensation, not a shift. It alters HOW the thrusters fire, making the net torque be zero at the expense of reduced lateral motion. It's always worked just fine for me unless I'm trying to translate more than about three modules at once (I think, I rarely have to move that many at a time, and when I do it's usually from the middle). With objects large enough, it won't much matter how far out you stick the tail boom. You're going to need thrusters on the opposite side of the CoG, which is outside the scope of this vessel. It assembles stations, it doesn't maneuver them.

Basically a telescoping boom will be primarily for storage and minor adjustability, but will not extend much farther out than the current form factor. Extendable lateral thrusters also make limited sense from a failure-prone standpoint.


On the code front, I got the new compiler installed and have things down to one fatal error, and it looks like I have to re-install my platform SDK to fix it (I hope that fixes it, or I'm out of ideas.) I have class to get to, so I'll work on it more later.

---------- Post added 08-05-10 at 03:47 AM ---------- Previous post was 08-04-10 at 05:25 PM ----------

I got the compiler working. See the first post for a basic recompile with the new mesh and raised camera.

As it turns out, the thrust computer is indeed non-functional, as are the antennae. They weren't in Orbiter 2006. This addon is ancient at this point, I think something's just not fully compatible with 2010. I'll have to fix it.... After I dig through everything and get a feel for how it all works.

 

[Izack]

now, packing it into some sort of launcher would be the business! i see a lot of potential and endless fun in this "space construction" aspect of orbiter... a maneuvering vessel is most important in such case :thumbup:

Well, we already have that in the form of [ame="http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=752"]Dragonfly-Lite (CVE-lite)[/ame], but I like this idea of a more practical redesign.

 

[Usquanigo]

Well, we already have that in the form of Dragonfly-Lite (CVE-lite), but I like this idea of a more practical redesign.

Can you get the DF-lite to work in O-2010? I can't and I would love to be able to.

 

[HAL9001]

That things could be interesting for that project:


[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1077"]PackedDragon[/ame]

[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3168"]Dragonfly made Easy[/ame]

[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3340"]XR5 Payload - Dragonfly[/ame]

[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3477"]dragonfly with a RMS[/ame]

 

[Rybec]

None of those are actually useful here. The packed dragon is just a mesh and config file, at no point does it automatically become a normal Dragonfly. The dragonfly made easy has no source code, so I can't do anything with it. The XR5 mod is already included and credited, and the Dragonfly with a RMS is just a scenario with a Dragon and an URMS.


So, it looks like I have to fix the existing functions to work properly under Orbiter2010 before I do anything else. The radar antennae are broken (Screens work, tracking does not), as is the CoG computer (although running the killrot autopilot while translating gives the same effect).

 

[HAL9001]

well I meant it as an Inspiration, not as something to copy parts of it.

 

[Rybec]

UPDATE: Now that I'm settled in from my move, I can start working on this again. Rather than attempting to wade through all the old code, I've decided to start from scratch. So far, it's at a spacecraft3 level, minus thruster locations.
Diving into this is being a little bumpier than I thought, I need to go over the SDK in more detail. Once I do, though, I'm confident I can get the main functions going, starting with CoG compensation. Then I'll start adding panels/VC, adding other features as I go.


Just wanted to let people know this isn't dead.