English

[cjp]

My Swedish/Danish probably isn't the best to read anyway. Because I've spent so long in Denmark now I frequently mix up the two languages, which is probably terrible for learners to understand.
vi=we
liknande=similar
kendskab=knowledge
forbedrer=better

Yeah, I didn't get it, but Google already got it for me. Where would we be without online translation?

Somehow, I did understand "lignende" in the other sentence, but not "liknande". I think it's all about the context. Often, if you know what kind of word to expect, you only need to understand 10% of the word to get it right.

Back in Japan, I could read Katakana perfectly if it was a word of English origin, and the context was clear, even while my Katakana skill was about "50% of all characters" at its top. For instance, being in an "Itarian restaurant": スパゲッティ becomes "su.. p-something, probably pa... soft sound-something... glottal stop... Ah, it's "supagettii"!

 

[Belisarius]

Fort, thanks for the clarification. I could never get those dipthong ones right in French.

 

[fort]

Fort, thanks for the clarification. I could never get those dipthong ones right in French.

There is only two diphtongues in my enumération y and w . Ou is like ou in you or ue in blue. On like om in bomb. An like an in bang. For the others, i've not any example coming to my mind right now. Ill or il can be considerate as diphtongue, similar to y in english in you girl > could be write fi...y in french. Eu not really different from i in girl.

French...Italian, Spanish, Latin, most generally ? is not very far from the Japanese phonetic i think. Ku=kou. The apico dental (fricatives...the as example in english but also occlusives ) are nevertheless not so easy to pronounce. But I do not know large thing there above.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think German is still one of the more complicated languages - I am born there, speaking and writing English is still sometimes even easier for me.

One problem, many people ignore: Nobody is born speaking real standard german. Most speak their local dialect or a wild mix between standard and local dialect. And if you are from outside Germany, and think, standard German is the way to go, you will have a hard time - because many words from the local dialects are so deep inside the everyday language that it is hard to tell for a German, which word is standard and which is not.

Take for example my forum name - everybody knows it is local dialect, but the word is used pretty often in local dialect. Even worse for the verb "frickeln" ( = doing time-consuming detail work - rocket science is full of it). It is pretty widespread in northern Germany and known also in southern latitudes, but only few will be sure that it is not-standard german.

Finally: "Schon 5 vor 9, wo bleibt der Jung? ich hab' ihm doch jesacht, wenn Schneemaleur is soll er 'ne halbe Stunde früher da sein.."

Almost standard German...but only almost.

 

[Belisarius]

There is only two diphtongues in my enumération y and w ...

I suppose I was mistaking dipthong for "vowel I can't really pronounce correctly"

Take for example my forum name - everybody knows it is local dialect, but the word is used pretty often in local dialect.

I think you overestimate our knowledge of German - please enlighten us as to what it means.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think you overestimate our knowledge of German - please enlighten us as to what it means.

"Wumpe" means irrelevant, unimportant. "Ur-" is a way in many dialects to produce the superlative. Urwumpe is just either "very unimportant" or "especially now unimportant". "Das ist doch urwumpe!" (That is completely unimportant!) was just my thought when I entered this username the first time in a AOL chat, when being asked for it.

"Ur-" is pretty universal... if you want to stress that something is really very fast, you can say "Das ist urschnell" (fast = schnell). Famous example from popular culture is the alcohol brand "Asbach Uralt" (alt = old)

 

[Belisarius]

Interesting that we take the "ur-" particle in English to mean "the first", as in that thing I was saying the other day about the ur-Geek.

 

[Urwumpe]

Interesting that we take the "ur-" particle in English to mean "the first", as in that thing I was saying the other day about the ur-Geek.

Well, you also use "Uber-" for things, where we would say "Meister-" (master). Only because your soldiers had been able to pronounce it in WW2, it does not mean they understood what it means.

But actually, you can also use "Ur-" + Nominative that way, to mean the first or prototype of something. The "Urahn" (very old ancestor) is a common example. It just has a different meaning when you use adjectives.

 

[cjp]

Some years ago I and some friends of me were making some fun, and we thought it would be funny to speak German-like. So, the overhead projector became the "Überhauptprojektor".

Überhaupt is a German word without a Dutch equivalent, and in fact the German word is used frequently in Dutch. Could it be that the German "ur" comes from "über", while the English ur comes from Ur?

 

[Belisarius]

Ur the ancient city? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure we pinched it from German. We usually pick up bits like that from other languages, then adapt them to our needs.

 

[cjp]

Ur the ancient city? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure we pinched it from German. We usually pick up bits like that from other languages, then adapt them to our needs.

Wikitionary seems to be on your side. Maybe it's just a coincidence that Ur is the birthplace of Abram, and hence the origin of the Jewish people (and many other semitic people), Judaism, Christianity and Islam. (You can argue that these religions started with Adam and Eve, but in that case it still kind of re-started with Abram).

 

[Jarvitä]

Ur the ancient city? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure we pinched it from German. We usually pick up bits like that from other languages, then adapt them to our needs.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them into dark alleys, beats them up and steals pieces of loose grammar from their pockets."

 

[ar81]

I do not see english as "cultural invasion" as some people in Latin America could think. It is a useful tool to communicate with other people. How do you think that I could talk to people from Finland, Brazil, Portugal, Japan, Russia, USA, UK, Australia, India, China, etc... without english?

I love my native language, spanish, for I think it is very rich.
It allows very interesting and complex constructs for literature and arts.
It is unfortunate that some people in my country do not even master basics of spanish.

I have seen people in managerial positions writing "come an enjoy the opportunity", "prevension" and many other horrible problems that were not typos. When I graduated from university, many classmates did not even master spanish enough to write a letter. And this is our native language.

So I would say that ignorance and poor education is invading us.

 

[n122vu]

ar81 - I can see your point about poor education, and I believe it is also true in the US to many degrees, especially in the area of grammar. I see so often many nationally-known celebrities, brand-name advertisements, and news reports where people use incorrect grammar that we learned as fundamentals in school. Yet if I were to point this out to them, they would of course have what they thought was a valid defense of their grammar and could not be convinced, simply because they are basing their opinoin on improper education.

I feel the grammar of the English language is the most confusing portion for even those who speak it natively to get a good grasp on (proper sentence structure, prepositional phrases, etc.). But there is also the fact of the way some words are spelled that can also get confusing. Check out the video below. :rofl:

 

[tblaxland]

The difference in pronunciation between "peel" and "pill", for example, is completely inacessible to most Spanish speakers.

I first learnt this when a South American Spanish teacher I had announced "I have the sheets!". It took a while to realise he was taking about the pieces of paper in his hand

In my experience, phonetics is the area which is worst taught and worst understood.

I agree and acknowledge that my own education in this area is lacking. In fact, due to concentrating on maths/engineering subjects my English education overall was less than ideal.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them into dark alleys, beats them up and steals pieces of loose grammar from their pockets."

:rofl:

 

[Urwumpe]

Some years ago I and some friends of me were making some fun, and we thought it would be funny to speak German-like. So, the overhead projector became the "Überhauptprojektor".

Well, "Überkopfprojektor" would be the correct translation - which is only mildly funny...

Überhaupt is a German word without a Dutch equivalent, and in fact the German word is used frequently in Dutch. Could it be that the German "ur" comes from "über", while the English ur comes from Ur?

Well, I am sure you have an equivalent - at least one... "Überhaupt" is a very flexible word. You can use it for saying BTW ("Und überhaupt,...") or for saying that something is really not that way ("Das ist überhaupt nicht wahr.")

But the Ur-theory is pretty unlikely... First of all, it's meaning in sumerian is that of the primary sexual organs of women - they called the city different as the later hebrew writers. Next, "ur-" as prefix for a verb becomes "er-" in German, which is more likely a original indogermanic prefix. The "Ur" in German, BTW, is an extinct form of wild cattle (Also known as "Auerochse", in Polish it is called "tur" - notice the similarity to the god "Tyr" or the German word for animal: "Tier"), which was very common in Europe before it was displaced by tamed variants.

 

[Artlav]

The most curious thing about this thread, is that it discusses English, yet there were no Englishmen and only two American post. Talk about global "Lingua France".

Word ordering thing can be confusing in a different way - being from a country in which's language word order is rather relaxed and commonly used for putting emphasis, back in school i had problems understanding why the words in english should be put exactly that way, and you can't say like "to the shop i need to go".

What i learned over time about languages is that you start to learn it by rules, so English appear to be simple for it's rules are simple, but master it by mining it's structures, for which the English is complex for it have a lot of different sayways.

{Youtube}

Great one, no wonder they say there are separate spelling lessons in English schools.

 

[Moonwalker]

Well, back in school I had to learn French and English of course. And occasionally I have to speak German as well

From my own experience I have to say that English by far was the most easiest one to learn. German grammar is a science for itself. Just terrible when you have to learn it in school. French grammar just is crazy as well. But English is great. It is easy to learn and sounds cool. And almost everybody undertands you, well, except... the French :lol:

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, if you want to be challenged, try these song lyrics (Excerpt):

Mei Mutter war ein Luder und jeden Tag im Öl,
mei Vater und mei Bruder san a schon in der Höll.
Mei Opa war sein Lebtag nur im Häf'n drin,
ich knack grad an Automat'n, weil i a starker Raucher bin!
I kletzl, was i kriagn kann, und i will grad springa,
da hör i die Sirenen das alte Liedl singa.


If you think German is hard, Austrian is a herculean challenge. Even for "Piefkes" (Austrian term for Germans).

 

[fort]

French grammar just is crazy as well. But English is great. It is easy to learn and sounds cool. And almost everybody undertands you, well, except... the French

Certainly:dry:.But the times are changing ( they âââre chenn'gin' poum poum poum).No doubt that in some...decades (maybe earlier) the first international language will be the one i speak actually with my compatriots, hombre !

Read that paper. :lol:

"How We Became the United States of France"

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1843168,00.html?cnn=yes