"From the Earth to The Moon" an AMSO 1.17 Apollo 11 Full Mission Tutorial Using IMFD

richard1967

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hi polaris im getting the same problem as the other lad when i adjust either the RAD or the LAT it doesnt adjust the EQI or the PeA. Ive tried this several times with the same result. I also thought as a whole the tutorial is great only problem i got was it needed to be more Condensed and maybe some screenshots so that ppl dont get confused all in all gr8 work please help with the adjusting the PEA
:)
 

MJR

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I am gettting the same problem richard is getting. Whatshould I do? Does anyone know?

---------- Post added at 09:49 AM ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 04:34 PM ----------

This is very frustrating.
 
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a_boy

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I remember I had this problem some weeks later, I think reason was - I was trying to set IMFD too early.Some minutes passed and I had possibility to change EQI and PeA by changing RAD and LAT.
I started
EQI and PeA procedures in -10 min before TLI (GET = 002:40:13.03) and have enough time to do this.
 

Waldopepper

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Step 26

Just wanted to say thanks to you for all the hard work you've been doing, this is an awesome program and fun to use. I have been using the Orbiter on and off when I get a chance since I first found it quite a few years ago.This Step by step to the moon is excellent. thank you again.I am having a problem though.Step 26. Set the LMFD's Operation modes to: "Vel. Frame" by navigating between the 2 pages and useing "Nxt", "Prev", "Set", "(+)", and "(-)" buttons.Step 27. Set the default ammounts for a Free-Return" flight by pressing setting these ammounts: (You will use the "Set" button for entering these ammounts)Lon: 4.00Lat : 4.00Rad: 8.00M(Note: Make sure you set the Rad to 8M at this point. If you do not you may see some crazy plan going no where near the moon)I can never find this to set the LON LAT And RAD easily.I have come across it before as I get to work with this and then get back months later but everytime its like starting all over again. at this point.To find this LMFD for me is driving me crazy as I get hung up for hours trying to navigate through to set up the Free return. I know its me, I even read through this entire thread and found something on page 6 about the Offset disabled, and I can't find that either. I'll keep plugging away at it, but to fix step 26 to get newbies like myself there without pulling the hair out my head would be helpful. Thanks again, one day I'll be walking on the moon AND returning to earth I've done all the steps individually but to accomplish the entire flight from begining to end is going to be quite the feat. I'm looking forward to it. and this thread is going to get me there.
 

Tommy

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I don't have the tutorial on hand, but from what I can remember - press the <MOD> button until you can see either "Offset Disabled" OR the Lat, Lon, and Rad values. If you see "Offset Disabled" highlight it using the <PREV> and <NEXT> buttons, then press <+>. Highlight the Lat and press <SET>. Type "4" (without the quotes) and press enter in the little pop-up box. Do the same for Lon. For Rad, do the same but type "8 Shift-M" (notice this MUST be capital M).
 

Waldopepper

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Thanks Tommy, I did end up finding it, after I decided to just not worry about the free return and started going through the rest of the steps all of a sudden it was all there, the offset disable and the LON LAT RAD so I was able to set them, but in my excitement in one of the later steps I turned to talk to someone and my right arm hit the numeral pad enter button and I didn't realize it. when I turned back to it I heard an engine running DOH !! so I aborted the mission as I was now going to be lost. lol

I tried right off the bat with the Mod button but it didn't bring me there. I'm going to run it from the start again right now so Hopefully it will all fall right in place this time.
 

polaris149Tiberius

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To: Richard1967,

Yes you are right. Some pictures would be nice. Ill try and work on some screenies.

As of now I have limited access to the internet so I will try and answer the questions when I can. a_boy's answer is probably the most accurate fix for the issue you all are seeing.

The MFDs should be linked and you shouldn't begin your programming of the IMFD TLI burn until you can see the moon in the Map program as the settings will not show correctly until the p-moon view is viewable in IMFD's map program. If you try and set these settings before the TLI settings wont work. I hope this helps and feel free to ask your questions. I can't promise that I can reply in a timely manor, but I will try. Others on this forum are very intelligent and can help as well. They are in many cases more resourcefull than I.
 
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Kosmonaut

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step 26

:shifty:Step 26. Set the LMFD's Operation modes to: "Vel. Frame" by navigating between the 2 pages and useing "Nxt", "Prev", "Set", "(+)", and "(-)" buttons.

I have diligently tried to find this "Vel. Frame" thingy for the best part of the evening. I have come to the conclusion that it does not, in fact, exist. Anyone that can prove otherwise has my ear. I've clicked on every button on the MFD's and cannot find it. IMFD v5.1.
It's a shame really as I was really looking forward to a journey to the moon.:shrug:

EDIT: never mind:blush: I just noticed the above postings. My apologies...it's 3 am here...:zzz:
 
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polaris149Tiberius

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Your post on the Vel Frame

Actually your not looking for "Vel Frame". Your looking for a section on one of the two pages called "Operations Mode: " Under that you can change the top value (usually its already on the default "Offset Disabled") You will use the +/- to change it to "Vel Frame"

Good hunting.
 

Milenko44

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hi polaris im getting the same problem as the other lad when i adjust either the RAD or the LAT it doesnt adjust the EQI or the PeA. Ive tried this several times with the same result. I also thought as a whole the tutorial is great only problem i got was it needed to be more Condensed and maybe some screenshots so that ppl dont get confused all in all gr8 work please help with the adjusting the PEA
:)

have we found a solution to this yet?
I thought it was because i was relatively new, but i guess others have the same problem.
btw im using the 2010 version of orbiter... could that be the cause?
 

Rex

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i dont know if the issues could be caused by the new version of orbiter and amso but someone should defiently update this tutorial to reflect the latest builds
 

Tommy

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If the Lon and Rad values don't seem to be doing anything there are Four steps to take.

Step 1: Check your set-up. Ensure that the MFD's are shared correctly and that Map program has the "Plan" mode activated. Ships course should be shown in blue, not green.

Step 2: Check your values. You did remember to put the capital M after the number, right? If you didn't your offset is only 8 meters, and won't make any noticable difference to your course.

Step 3: Ensure you are in Velocity Frame operation mode, and that the word (Offset) flashes in white on Target Intercepts main display mode.

Step 4: If all else fails, try "resetting" Target Intercept by pressing the TGT button, and enter "moon" into the dialog box. Immediately after that, press <MOD> and then change "Offset Disable" to "Vel Frame". Do this before setting any other values. You will likely have to set up Target Intercept's values all over again, but it should ensure that the offset is used.
 

JonnyBGoode

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I'm giving it a try with AMSO and P1, now that we've got the autopilot bug figured out. I'm currently in the barbecue roll, getting set up for mid-course correction. So far, so good... I think...

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 AM ----------

Quick question: PART 5, STEP 5 says: Set the dV to Zero "0", and
STEP 6 says: Step up or down this ammount from 0.000 to an amount that gives the PeA in the R IMFD Map program an altitude of 80km. I'm seeing 3 dVs here, dVf, dVp and dVi. Which one do I need to adjust? (or should I try adjusting all of them?)

---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:40 PM ----------

Well I did a bit of adjusting on the first two values. Made it into lunar orbit with a PeA of 64.73k and an ApA of 66.93k. Not bad for a first attempt...?
 

Tommy

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In this instance I would change dVf. Think of them this way - dVforward, dVplanar, and dVinward. Delta Velocity should be set to Vel Frame (not p-30) for a lunar flight, so a positive dVf is prograde and a negative is retrograde. dVi will also have an effect on the PeA, but large adjustments to dVi will change the location of the Pe, and that should be on the far side of the Moon, not the leading or trailing side. IIRC, you should be able to use Earth as the Ref, even though you are a bit outside it's SOI. This will work better than having the Sun as the Ref.

I usually use Target Intercept for the MCC's, but you will need to change the offset. This almost always will call for a smaller Rad. Use Map in plan mode to help predict, just like you did for the TLI. For MCC's, use "realtime" burn guidance rather than "off-plane" or "prograde". Also, I think it's best to set the Target again, even though it hasn't changed. This forces IMFD to reset, and guarantees that the new vessel mass (original burn had the Saturn's final stage in the stack) and engines are used for calculations.

I like to have Map in re-entry mode (hit the <MOD> button once) so that the landing target is displayed in Map. There will be a value called "Ang". Small adjustments to the "Lat" in Target Intercept (or dVp in Delta-V) can help reduce the Ang, when it is zero your lunar orbit will pass directly over the landing target. Landing Target is set on IMFD's main configuration page - the same place you changed "Lambert AP" to Apollo P-30. Not sure how historically accurate that is, but it does help reduce the plane change in lunar orbit needed for base alignment.
 

JonnyBGoode

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This was helpful, thanks. I like tutorials that don't just tell you, "do this, this, and this," but tell you why you're doing it, what the numbers mean and how they relate spatially to what you're trying to accomplish.

Anyway, here I am at 65k and seeing my first Earthrise. Now I need to figure out how to get down to Tranquility.

lunarorbit.jpg
 
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Tommy

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Glad we could help! I agree about wanting to know the "why's". I've always hated when the tute gives a "magic number", and no info on how that number was arrived at. You end up learning how to perform only that specific flight.

In this case, the tutorial is about a specific flight, and numbers in many cases come from historical record. It's much more understandable why this tutorial has that. Also, it's very hard to do a tutorial that doesn't have some of the "do this, that, and another thing" without letting the tutorial grow into a complete primer on spaceflight in general. You have to limit the scope somewhere!

There are quite a few of us here at the forum willing to fill in any gaps in a tutorial - provided it's not a bad tutorial to begin with. This one has very few gaps, and is pretty darn good in general, so it's a pleasure to help out.
 

polaris149Tiberius

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A Very Relevant Announcement from the author-

This was helpful, thanks. I like tutorials that don't just tell you, "do this, this, and this," but tell you why you're doing it, what the numbers mean and how they relate spatially to what you're trying to accomplish.

Anyway, here I am at 65k and seeing my first Earthrise. Now I need to figure out how to get down to Tranquility.

lunarorbit.jpg

Hello JonnyBGoode,

A very nice picture indeed. Thank you very much for your more than generous words about my document. On figuring out how to complete the Apollo 11 Mission requirements of landing at Tranquillity Base, I believe there were in this thread additions suggested that cover the powered decent stage of the LEM. If I am incorrect, then the announcement below will address your need very soon sir.

Dear Tutorial Readers,

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone who has used/uses, posted questions, suggestions, and all other contributions to this little old, outdated, unfinished tutorial and for your very helpful input. You have helped this community to enjoy their experience in the sim.

Second, I believe you will all be happy to know, that many of you who have posted in this thread may soon become co-authors of the final version which I have decided to keep posted here and to publish in other locations as a PDF for all Orbinaughts to use since some of us may still have machines and/or video hardware which will not run Orbiter 2010 P1.
Also, because this tutorial was designed for Orbiter 2006 P1, my belief is that it is still somewhat useful, and therefore because there are still a great many mods for Orbiter 2006 out there, it should remain here. BUT as a much better, more complete, easier to read version.

Thirdly, I do hope all will forgive me for not having already fixed this tutorial a long ago. Your contributions in my absence have helped forum members get through the broken parts of this document more times than I can count. I appreciate all your help and I thank those who still use this antiquated broken document.

THEREFORE, today I am happy to proclaim that because there has been so much help, with everyone's permission, I am going to compile all the posts of this thread -all the questions, suggestions, comments and criticisms and consider them each for additions and/or amendments to the final version of the tutorial so it will be more complete, more correct, more understandable, a product of the readers and contributors of this tutorial thread. If anyone would NOT like their posts or contributions to be considered for the final document, please let me know in a private message. Otherwise, I will consider all the information here as content. I will of course site your contribution by your forum name and post link in the "References" section of the tutorial giving full credit to your writing.

I hope this helps the current (in my view) unfinished condition of the tutorial and truly believe now that I will be successful with everyone's help in helping the Orbiter community re-fly the Apollo 11 mission of:
"...of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth."
Because,
"...We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."

Thank you again everybody, and God’s Speed John Glenn.
:salute::salute::salute::salute::salute::salute:
 
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