Project Here goes nothing: The Delta-StarLiner G42

GuiConteDGIV2X

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@River Crab i am talking about the boosters @Moach is telling about solid booster and additional tanks to go to moon right? i think liquid ones are better because you can cut off the fire unlike the srb challenger incident is a example.
 

Polaris

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I like it!

Thank you, Moach! This is the best DG I have ever flown (so far I've flown the DG, DG-S, DGIV, DG-X1, and the DG-EX). I'm waiting for a Tuesday release!
 

Moach

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hmm... i thought drop tanks could be used to reach orbits at inclinations which make a direct launch impossible... then the infamous DARTS would supply enough thrust to get the heavier craft aloft

this is the case with launching for KSC-based moon trips - note, the G42 is not capable of reaching the moon by itself, it's purpose on a moon mission, is to assemple and supply a lunar transfer vessel in orbit over a couple of flights...

the G42 has no hover engines, and is therefore impossible to land -safely- at the moon :rolleyes:

yet, unlike the shuttle SRBs, the DARTS are much much smaller (they fit in the slots behind the RAMCASTER exhausts - and are consequently a lot safer to use
 

Usquanigo

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Why do people have such an obession/desire to take space planes to the moon or beyond? It boggles....

I had thought using the Shuttle to carry a lunar cargo would be a cool idea. But something like the G42 ought to be personnel transfer only. Liftind supplies is still best left to rockets. Why carry the extra weight of wings and shielding and have to bring people down if all you're doing it tossing materiel up? Some sort of vert launch rocket, built on the cheap (much cheaper than they do currently) designed to be "bio-degradable" (as in, guarenteed to burn up on re-entry, no spare fuel needed (like they do with the ET)) so being disposable won't hurt the wallet so bad.

Then use the space plane to ferry people up and down as needed (as well as provide joyrides for tourists and whatnot - this is the very idea/plan behind my post Let's say you have a country sized budget to play with )
 

River Crab

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Whoa, they fit behind those? Coooool! :cool:

[rant]
As for ejection...NO SMEGGING EJECTION! The G42 is a very capable AIRCRAFT and it would be a huge waste to add all that weight when you could glide back to the runway. The whole safety of SpaceShip2 is based on this (and the engines), and it doesn't even have as much of a glidescope. Also, ejection isn't even effective for most of the flight regime, and likely only the pilot would be able to eject, as in the DGIV. If you want to save the crew, save the ship.
[/rant]

About the DARTs: an SRB is the size of an entire G42. A DART is a little RATO rocket, and doesn't stay with you nearly as long. Besides, if one exploded, it might not even destroy anything since the fuel tanks are in the bulges in the wings, and it's below and aft of most of the fuselage. So personally I don't have a problem with them. Besides, liquid boosters would be much more expensive, DARTs are cheap enough to be disposable. The reason we don't use a magnetic track or catapult to accelerate to t/o speed is because we want to be able to operate from anywhere, without a special runway like SKYLON needs.

BTW, taking off from the aircraft runway at Wideawake was eye-opening. :)
But not eye-opening to keep me awake 'till daylight, I'm afraid. Today is for flying!

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------

Oh yes, @ Usquanigo: I imagine something like the ridiculous Falcon XX would be used for heavy cargo? Dunno about making it disposable, but it seems like a good combi with the G42. One other thing that might compliment it is that new Frog-shaped Dragonfly-type tug, which I am hoping could fit in the cargo bay.
 

Moach

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yep, the G42 is designed to aid in orbitel-construction operations with light cargo transport, it does have a shuttle-style cargo bay, complete with manipulator arm and all - but it's mostly meant for use as a crew shuttle, and as a construction support platform, providing quarters for the build team which assembles the large bits coming up strapped on LRVs
 

Moach

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i had thought of adding such visual effects - but i'll leave those for last, since they're mostly eye-candy :rolleyes:

one thing at a time, shall we?
 

GuiConteDGIV2X

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I have a little ploblem on the installation any helps i know the copy and put on orbiter directory but i have found a incompatible paste
 
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River Crab

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I have a little ploblem on the installation any helps i know the copy and put on orbiter directory but i have found a incompatible paste
:huh:


:idk: What?

I have a feeling that might make more sense in Portuguese.
Not that I know Portuguese, but it doesn't make sense in English, so unless you know Japanese...
 
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GuiConteDGIV2X

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do you know to install you need to extract the addon from the winrar to orbiter directory but a a folder called moach s spaceship is the ploblem now understand? =)
 
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Moach

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yeah, i think by "paste" he meant "folder", which translates to "pasta" - a common mixup...

i've already PM'd him with help in portuguese... :rolleyes:


anyways - that folder isn't really necessary, as it contains only developer files... if you're getting trouble from it, just ignore it
 

GuiConteDGIV2X

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LOL

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 PM ----------

yeah, i think by "paste" he meant "folder", which translates to "pasta" - a common mixup...

i've already PM'd him with help in portuguese... :rolleyes:


anyways - that folder isn't really necessary, as it contains only developer files... if you're getting trouble from it, just ignore it

:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah:and so?
 

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That explains the 'Nova Pasta' folder I found in there. :lol:

Speaking of that, when I was complaining before about the flight model...I forgot to install the new version! Oops!

I've corrected that now, and I don't have crazy yawing problems anymore. The 'pendulum-swinging' mentioned before is the only main problem (well, that and I managed to light myself on fire at 12km alt, but I think that's just my own genius at work :shifty:)

An enormous bug that I haven't gotten to yet but am dreading is that my numpad has an = button instead of a + button, and I have a feeling that I won't be able to switch engine modes.
 

guitarist473

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it may just be a wip... BUT ITS AWESOME!!!
looking great so far!
i found that on approach i used what would normally be the rudder control to line up with the runway and it rotates but dosent stop rotating... i landed sideways and went into a beastly roll of doom!... dont no if this problem has already bin noted :)
thanks for the awesome work!!! keep it up :D
 

Moach

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progress update (yep, while you fly it, i program it :thumbup: )...

just got the basic state save/load routines operational :yes:
now, no longer you'll reload a scenario just to fnd the ship in the same fallback state - it'll be how you left it :rolleyes:


next up in line - replacing the awkward engine lookup code so that it reads directly from a bitmap file and uses more predictable bilinear interpolation between grid points (which will be increased in resolution) :idea:

i already have the functions in hand.... and a clever BMP handling library that sould make this run easily..... that's one thing i love about C++, you rarely need to reinvent the wheel :p

---------- Post added 08-05-10 at 11:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 08-04-10 at 08:45 PM ----------

well, that was relatively painless :rolleyes:


i switched the engine lookup code for something a lot better... now, instead of hard-coded 16x16 byte arrays, i'm using runtime-loaded 64x64 bmp files to map the engine efficiency over speed and altitude - and now, the lookup interpolation is done with a bilinear method, which is far more predictable and maintainable that the cubic method i was using...
it does require a more precise grid to flow smoothly, but since i'm loading bmp files straight-up now, i can have them as large as it takes (tho 64x64 is proving to be quite satisfactory)

and best of all.... i can edit the flight envelopes without recompiling the module :thumbup:


and now, all the engines have proper ISP settings... before, they all had a common parameter, but now they're independently defined - in english, i flew me out of fuel before reaching a stable orbit :facepalm: i guess it needs more tuning :p


takeoff is a little slower now... the turbo-rockets have peak efficiency at mach .5 through 1.5, and it's noticeable during takeoff.... it becomes obvious the need for the DARTs if we were to launch with extra-heavy payloads and/or droptanks installed for an off-plane launch

making this ship is getting more fun everyday now :cheers: it's a blast now that we're moving towards the actual simulation bits... this is where the cool stuff happens :)


now, if you think she's hard to fly, buckle up matey! upcoming versions will begin to feature more advanced systems simulation - fuel management, ac/dc busses, APU, ECS, hydraulics, avionics and whatnot are all in the plans...

so it won't be just flicking a switch and whoosh goes the engines into the next stage - there will be checklists to run :salute:


as for handling, realistically, the G42 is expected to act out on yaw, particularly at transsonic speeds... landing would not be as hard if it had airbrakes, which i haven't yet added to the simulation - next version should have them installed.....

but yeah, note that during landing, as during any other part of atmospheric flight, a simple rule-of-thumb applies: - THE G42 HAS NO RUDDERS - keep this engraved in your mind as you fly her - while on approach with the DG, one could just pedal to the left and watch the TVV ball roll to the left across the hud... in the G42, one cannot - it has little to no sideways drag, so in order to change direction, some aileron work is required... this effect is most apparent during approach and landing

speaking of which, i have yet to remodel those single-axis trucks on the main gears... no runway deserves that kind of punishment... i'll have them replaced with 2-axis trucks, like those on the Concorde :hmm:



now, just to clarify, anyone else had troubles getting it to run? or was it just GuiConteDGIV2X that had such problems?
 
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GuiConteDGIV2X

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progress update (yep, while you fly it, i program it :thumbup: )...

just got the basic state save/load routines operational :yes:
now, no longer you'll reload a scenario just to fnd the ship in the same fallback state - it'll be how you left it :rolleyes:


next up in line - replacing the awkward engine lookup code so that it reads directly from a bitmap file and uses more predictable bilinear interpolation between grid points (which will be increased in resolution) :idea:

i already have the functions in hand.... and a clever BMP handling library that sould make this run easily..... that's one thing i love about C++, you rarely need to reinvent the wheel :p

---------- Post added 08-05-10 at 11:00 AM ---------- Previous post was 08-04-10 at 08:45 PM ----------

well, that was relatively painless :rolleyes:


i switched the engine lookup code for something a lot better... now, instead of hard-coded 16x16 byte arrays, i'm using runtime-loaded 64x64 bmp files to map the engine efficiency over speed and altitude - and now, the lookup interpolation is done with a bilinear method, which is far more predictable and maintainable that the cubic method i was using...
it does require a more precise grid to flow smoothly, but since i'm loading bmp files straight-up now, i can have them as large as it takes (tho 64x64 is proving to be quite satisfactory)

and best of all.... i can edit the flight envelopes without recompiling the module :thumbup:


and now, all the engines have proper ISP settings... before, they all had a common parameter, but now they're independently defined - in english, i flew me out of fuel before reaching a stable orbit :facepalm: i guess it needs more tuning :p


takeoff is a little slower now... the turbo-rockets have peak efficiency at mach .5 through 1.5, and it's noticeable during takeoff.... it becomes obvious the need for the DARTs if we were to launch with extra-heavy payloads and/or droptanks installed for an off-plane launch

making this ship is getting more fun everyday now :cheers: it's a blast now that we're moving towards the actual simulation bits... this is where the cool stuff happens :)


now, if you think she's hard to fly, buckle up matey! upcoming versions will begin to feature more advanced systems simulation - fuel management, ac/dc busses, APU, ECS, hydraulics, avionics and whatnot are all in the plans...

so it won't be just flicking a switch and whoosh goes the engines into the next stage - there will be checklists to run :salute:


as for handling, realistically, the G42 is expected to act out on yaw, particularly at transsonic speeds... landing would not be as hard if it had airbrakes, which i haven't yet added to the simulation - next version should have them installed.....

but yeah, note that during landing, as during any other part of atmospheric flight, a simple rule-of-thumb applies: - THE G42 HAS NO RUDDERS - keep this engraved in your mind as you fly her - while on approach with the DG, one could just pedal to the left and watch the TVV ball roll to the left across the hud... in the G42, one cannot - it has little to no sideways drag, so in order to change direction, some aileron work is required... this effect is most apparent during approach and landing

speaking of which, i have yet to remodel those single-axis trucks on the main gears... no runway deserves that kind of punishment... i'll have them replaced with 2-axis trucks, like those on the Concorde :hmm:



now, just to clarify, anyone else had troubles getting it to run? or was it just GuiConteDGIV2X that had such problems?
i have found a little ploblem i know this ship runs on orbiter 2010 but the ship rotate and don t have sound not ummu compatible but i will wait to release version :zzz:

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

LOL Sierra Leone

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

MAH BOI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Linkmahboi.JPG
 

Eccentrus

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taming a wild steed

so yeah, I've finally tamed this wild horse, even though it was like hell in the first 30 km, I eventually made it into orbit after speeding too fast at mach 26++ at 68 km :lol:, which gave me a 300 x 70 km orbit, which then I circularize into 200*170 one, and still have some fuel left (the previous attempt just tossed me into 70kms altitude and then drop down and occilating :lol:)

just one suggestion:

this G42, being a very much complicated ship, had too many to show on that VC, well, if I'm using a 22" monitor, it might had been not a problem, but I'm using a laptop (14"), that's why my APA shoot off to 300 there :facepalm:, it would be very nice if you, or someone else willing, to make a 2D cockpit so it will all be readable even on a small monitor (or even I myself, but I just don't have the time to relearn C++ yet)
 
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