How to deal with none earth spacecraft?

jb42682

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Please keep in mind this is a mind excercise. We have for many years been violated by other species that exist in our universe. but yet we ignore it and sum it up as joke our claim that people are crazy who have seen proof.
There is no doubt to this the evidence is overwhelming. If that's not enough do the math. What are the odds out of the trillion+ sun systems in our universe that other species exist?

With that said imagine that russia had mig21's when we only have p51's and they freely fly over our airspace,kidnap our people and spy on us.
What would we do? Just ignore it so we don't have to face the reality there's somebody more advanced then us. our learn and advance to defend ourselves. I might be wrong on this seeing that we do not know the whole truth of where we come from and might never know. But Considering we evolved from this planet doesn't make it ours? And also Because we are the only intelligent species in our solar system "that we know of" doesn't that make our solar system our's to?

So here's my question. How do we stop the pentration of our space with our current technology?

Have fun with this I look foward to hearing you answers
 
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In a nutshell; we don't. Neither the technology, nor the economy to create the technology exist today, let alone in the fiction you suggest. At this point we cannot even constantly monitor more than a very small fraction of the sky. We have technology today that makes us nigh on to invisible to lesser technology. Why would a species capable of interstellar travel not have technology that is not at least as superior to anything that we have today?
 
let me rephrase. By your personal interpetation. What would we need to stop said pentration?
 
The UFO phenomenon is closely linked to the abduction phenomenon; both have qualities of a cultural/psychological phenomenon rather than a physical one. The abduction phenomenon for example has many sexual aspects and is reminiscent of older "ghost" "fairy" or "demon" encounters. Moreover many abduction events are quite similar to phenomena such as sleep paralysis, which can be quite scary.

The actual phenomena of UFOs can be explained by misidentification of things from aircraft, to balloons, to clouds. Nevertheless there is a small percentage of sightings that cannot be attributed to these things. A "UFO" means just that; an unidentified flying object.

Many aircraft such as the B-2 or F-117 (and more recently perhaps various UCAVs that are in development) are quite strange, and from certain angles can look a great deal like "saucers". It has even been postulated that the "UFO conspiracy" is encouraged by the US airforce and others to attract attention away from their advanced projects.

The biology of the claimed "aliens" also makes no sense; the stereotypical "Grey" or "Reptoid" are so biologically and evolutionarily inane (as extraterrestrial organisms) as to discredit the abduction phenomenon outright. Even worse are the "Space Brothers" or "Nordics" which are little more than fair-haired and tall humans that step out of spacecraft.

Real extraterrestrial organisms will only bear a passing resemblance to life on Earth- perhaps in a similar manner to the strange and extraordinary cambrian biota, or to the various other organisms that inhabit the planet. The book Expedition by Wayne Barlow and thw worldbuilding project Snaiad by artist Nemo Ramjet are good (if at times fafetched) examples of scientifically-grounded speculation of extraterrestrial evolution.

Furthermore the concept of extraterrestrials coming to Earth for interbreeding with humans is laughable; it would be easier for a human to interbreed with a plant than an alien, because the plant at least comes from the same planet. It's quite likely that alien organisms will have wholly different biochemistries; they might not posess traditional DNA and in the coincidence that they did, the way it is arranged and how it influenced the development of the organism would be totally different.

Whether spacecraft in cislunar space could be detected is debatable; it's quite probable that if they did not wish to be detected they could use "stealth" techniques such as radar deflection and absorbant materials (and atmospheric UFOs have alledgedly given radar returns), but they will run into problems of dissapating their heat- see There Ain't No Stealth In Space. AFAIK there are however no monitoring stations that search for heat signatures in space.

Furthermore the spacecraft would likely be somewhat reflective; I suspect (though I may be wholly incorrect) that if it were unreflective to avoid detection, it would run into problems with solar insolation. Even if it were unreflective but still visible, it's quite likely that the thousands of amateur astronomers, and the thousands of professional ones, would spot it at some point.

If the ship has travelled interstellar distances it is garunteed to be quite large; it would either need to travel at high speed, or employ some "magic" technique (such as an Alcubierre drive, which might not work at all) and both would likely need large supporting equipment to work.

Furthermore the reason of why such a "highly sophisticated race" would come to Earth to "spy on us and abduct our citizens" should be asked. Such a civilisation could commit genocide on a planetary scale quite easily; maybe scientific research would be a more sensible reason. Nevertheless it probably wouldn't fit into the abduction etc claims.

Nevertheless I agree that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe, and some of it might very well be able to travel to (or make contact with) the Earth. But "occam's razor" must also be considered; and the explanation that requires the least assumptions (misidentified phenomena/sleep paralysis/cultural phenomenon) should be accepted until evidence that suggests otherwise arises.

What would we need to stop said pentration?

Interplanetary armed spacecraft. Possible with current technology, but they'd need a whole new infrastructure and many decades of development for even primitive examples that probably wouldn't be on a par with those that have been developed after centuries of experience in interplanetary and/or interstellar war. Some of our current technology could be effective to varying degrees if they got within range, see "Worldwar".

The inability to defend other bodies in the solar system from alien occupation is actually rather fair considering that we don't have a presence on them.
 
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This thread poses an interesting question, is there anything we can do? i think, at the moment, assuming all we're told we have, is all we have, no. But we know there's probably some interesting stuff around that we don't hear about.

Anyway, I'm sure if someone out there wanted to "off" us, then theres nothing we could do about it.. they'd have so many different ways to do it that we can't even think of - and many we can, like a relativistic projectile or some super virus which we would have no way of detecting or fighting.

The UFO phenomenon is closely linked to the abduction phenomenon; both have qualities of a cultural/psychological phenomenon rather than a physical one. The abduction phenomenon for example has many sexual aspects and is reminiscent of older "ghost" "fairy" or "demon" encounters. Moreover many abduction events are quite similar to phenomena such as sleep paralysis, which can be quite scary.

Alternatively, perhaps strange creatures have visited or been with us for as long as we have existed... It's just our interpretations that change. Men in Black, currently tied to UFO phenomena and the US government, are also something that has been recorded throughout history.

Strange how these themes repeat over the years, for whatever reason.

The actual phenomena of UFOs can be explained by misidentification of things from aircraft, to balloons, to clouds. Nevertheless there is a small percentage of sightings that cannot be attributed to these things. A "UFO" means just that; an unidentified flying object.

Many aircraft such as the B-2 or F-117 (and more recently perhaps various UCAVs that are in development) are quite strange, and from certain angles can look a great deal like "saucers". It has even been postulated that the "UFO conspiracy" is encouraged by the US airforce and others to attract attention away from their advanced projects.

I'm sure the extraterrestrial hypothesis has been encouraged by certain establishments to cover up secret aircraft. recently on another board a member had a UFO sighting, he built a basic 3d model of it, it overflew his car near a test range in the UK... to cut a long story short, we were pretty certain after a while that it was something called 'storm shadow' a type of cruise missile. While i think that its often a case of misidentification, for some which can't be, perhaps sometimes they aren't from here.

As far as i'm concerned, there certainly are things flying around which the public for whatever reason do not know about.

Myself and a friend saw something very strange once, around midday/early on a bright sunny day in the afternoon we saw 4 spheres, metallic looking, high up, kinda blued out but a bit darker than the sky. they flew in a circle a few times before peeling off in different directions... and they were fast... Ive considered everything from balloons to projected lights and nothing fits the bill.

I see no reason why they would be "Alien" of course, thats not the only explanation.. maybe it was just some strange atmospheric phenomena, i really can't say.

The biology of the claimed "aliens" also makes no sense; the stereotypical "Grey" or "Reptoid" are so biologically and evolutionarily inane (as extraterrestrial organisms) as to discredit the abduction phenomenon outright. Even worse are the "Space Brothers" or "Nordics" which are little more than fair-haired and tall humans that step out of spacecraft.

Real extraterrestrial organisms will only bear a passing resemblance to life on Earth- perhaps in a similar manner to the strange and extraordinary cambrian biota, or to the various other organisms that inhabit the planet. The book Expedition by Wayne Barlow and thw worldbuilding project Snaiad by artist Nemo Ramjet are good (if at times fafetched) examples of scientifically-grounded speculation of extraterrestrial evolution.

Furthermore the concept of extraterrestrials coming to Earth for interbreeding with humans is laughable; it would be easier for a human to interbreed with a plant than an alien, because the plant at least comes from the same planet. It's quite likely that alien organisms will have wholly different biochemistries; they might not posess traditional DNA and in the coincidence that they did, the way it is arranged and how it influenced the development of the organism would be totally different.

That there's no way they could look like us, as in humanoid form i guess... assumes that they'd have to evolve completely separate from us and life on earth (with no room for just plain cooincidence to boot) , or that creatures like that even evolved naturally at all and aren't made specifically to interact with us - like say engineered creatures or machines made by a von neumann probe. Maybe the greys for example, are just the aliens asimos. Or the 'space brothers' are genetically engineered from human samples... There's no reason to assume blind luck made a nordic alien look like dolph lungren or vice versa.

I'm not saying that your point is entirely wrong that you might expect things to look very different, and not like a cheap tv scifi with little effects budget so the aliens all look like normal people... but any speculation on what these things could look like is still pure speculation all we really know, or believe is that life which looks like us, humanoid forms can evolve to an advanced state on an earthlike world.

Essentially, I think to dismiss it by saying that there's no way that they could look like that seems to lack imagination, or perhaps originates from a time when ideas like panspermia, or engineering new life forms, or really advanced machines that are life-like also seemed very far fetched, as far fetched as interstellar travel seemed at a certain point, i think most of us would accept that given enough advancement, or enough time, interstellar travel is an acceptable concept.

You've mentioned far better reasons for dismissing the phenomena elsewhere, like sleep paralysis, perhaps simple attention seeking... But you never know, perhaps every now and then something genuinely strange happens.;)
 
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I'm afraid your question needs to be far more specific to be answered reasonably.

For instance, how are the aliens here? Are we talking one or a few long term traveling colony ships, such as was implied in the X-Files or the current version of V? If so, then the aliens are working with very limited resources, and could be potentially stopped with simple exposure and proof of their existence making it impossible for them to operate freely.

Now if we are assuming FTL travel, or something interdimensional, then we are up the creek. Then again, maybe not.

Are the aliens themselves under any sort of code of conduct? Might they be working within the constraints of some sort of Endangered Species Act? Weirdly enough, the best bet then might be to make a formal protest to whatever alien governing body has authority.

Are there more than one faction of aliens? Are they working together? Can a deal be made with one faction to set them against each other?

And last, assuming the aliens are as far above us as we are from insects or some such, all is still not lost. Plenty of "lower" critters thrive alongside us here on Earth. Heck, wasps choose our structures to build on over natural locations when they can. And cats and dogs have worked out their own, each different, compromise to dealing with the high tech gods walking in their midst.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a sudden odd urge to go back and rewatch my UFO collection....

:lol:
 
Strange how these themes repeat over the years, for whatever reason.

Indeed. Could be an example of some sort of universal human attribute, perhaps linked to our psychiatry or early childhood experiences.

There's the Tokoloshe, for example, in many African cultures- a diminutive humanoid with large eyes and a large head (almost like an Ewok). Sounds a lot like a grey...

to cut a long story short, we were pretty certain after a while that it was something called 'storm shadow' a type of cruise missile.

Sometimes it isn't even obscure/secret military aircraft, but mundane things... an aircraft at night can be mistaken for an unidentified phenomena by an uninformed person, and I recall personally seeing a cluster of party balloons in the sky that looked pretty strange, and startling at first.

Not to mention things like weather balloons or illuminated dirigibles... or sometimes even planets.

That there's no way they could look like us, as in humanoid form i guess... assumes that they'd have to evolve completely separate from us and life on earth (with no room for just plain cooincidence to boot) , or that creatures like that even evolved naturally at all and aren't made specifically to interact with us - like say engineered creatures or machines made by a von neumann probe. Maybe the greys for example, are just the aliens asimos. Or the 'space brothers' are genetically engineered from human samples... There's no reason to assume blind luck made a nordic alien look like dolph lungren or vice versa.

I'm not saying that your point is entirely wrong that you might expect things to look very different, and not like a cheap tv scifi with little effects budget so the aliens all look like normal people... but any speculation on what these things could look like is still pure speculation all we really know, or believe is that life which looks like us, humanoid forms can evolve to an advanced state on an earthlike world.

Essentially, I think to dismiss it by saying that there's no way that they could look like that seems to lack imagination, or perhaps originates from a time when ideas like panspermia, or engineering new life forms, or really advanced machines that are life-like also seemed very far fetched, as far fetched as interstellar travel seemed at a certain point, i think most of us would accept that given enough advancement, or enough time, interstellar travel is an acceptable concept.

The thing is... there's no law that states evolution has to pan out like it did here. There are an infinite number of possibilities of why it would not. The many different organisms on Earth are an example of this.

A simple organism doesn't have the genetics to turn into an eukaryote, a vertebrate, a mammal etc... that is all up to random mutation and the geological and environmental factors over a period of hundreds of millions of years. Panspermia is generally considered to be limited to simple organisms (i.e. bacteria) or even pre-life, if it is possible across interstellar distances at all.

A good example is the "Dinosauroid" by Dale Russell, a postulation of what Stenonychosaurous (now known to be synonymous with Troodon) would look like if it had not gone extinct and had continued to evolve and become more intelligent.

His result was essentially a lizard man (not unlike a Reptoid). Apart from the lack of feathers (which can be considered to be a case of Science Marching On), it's pretty much laughable- many paleontologists admit that such a body plan is downright silly for a creature that is simply not human, and it would still have mostly dinosaurian features even if it had evolved intelligence. There's no reason why an intelligent organism has to look like a human- if the K/T impactor had missed, and troodontids had evolved sapience, Earthlings would have been totally different, and it's quite possible (and they might have their own version of "Greys" or even the vicious Mammal Men...). And this is with an organism that is actually quite similar to us.

I'm not saying that such organisms would not share any attributes with us- it's likely things like limbs, eyes, jaws will be relatively commonplace because they're evolutionarily good ideas (and natural history has proven it- such traits have evolved multiple times). But I think that considering the evolution of humanoids, is conversely the conservative or "unimaginitive view", because there is simply a mind boggling number of possibilities out there, and nothing at all to say that it has to turn out one way. Of course there is no law against such organisms evolving (we're living proof), but it's simply very unlikely. And while it certainly is speculation, it's based in scientific research- there are many people dedicated to research in this field.

Your suggestion of the Space Brothers being engineered humans is a good one; it might make sense for the aliens to breed or raise humans as ambassadors to the natives (a la Avatar).

I don't see how a Grey could be a particularly sensible design for a robot though... if anything an alien race would base it's robots off it's own physique, if not they would look like copying machines or MER rovers (and apparently some abductees do report such "robots"). If they're an attempt at making a "human" that would fit in, they're a pretty lousy one... they tend to be more horrifying than comforting which is probably not desirable.

Assuming it's a real thing, are they even friendly? perhaps not all the time...

Are humans friendly?

Not all the time. ;)
 
I found this vid rather interesting:


At 2:47 Michio Kaku talks about the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox"]Fermi paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
You mean... space aliens?

d9_03.jpg


Why not? :lol:

(quite a credible design, btw- despite being vaguely human)
 
Ok now reverse the roles.
let's go say 200yrs into the future. We can travel to other solar systems within a reasonable amount of time.
We find a earth like planet and an intelligent species but at let's say a a BC era of technology and understanding.
What would we do?
Would land in the biggest conetration of said beings get out (assuming you have protective suit of course) and say hi were from earth, this is our space ship?
or would we study and observe?
What if another advanced species were already there and "abusing" said species. Such as abuduction,stealing of minerals,interfearance with the evolution of the society.
What would we do? Deffend it? and the society witnessing this would it see one as evil and one as good?

Have fun.
 
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If the society was uncontacted I'd do what any modern explorer would do to an uncontacted people; use them as political pawns.

If someone was exploiting them (I don't really see why they'd have a reason for "abduction, stealing of minerals or interferance with evolution of the society" though), I'd be very very scared.

Because those people have capabilities equal to or more than our own, and they might not like us.

But if we had the advantage; naturally trying to be The Galaxy's Police would bring good press back home.

I'm willing to place my bet on probability, or rather, utter lack thereof.

Probability of what?
 
Probability of what?
Of anything in this thread ever happening. :P

You've got a point though, I should have elaborated. If by some unfathomable chance this scenario happened, I would hope that a no-interference policy was taken in either case. One, because we aren't exactly gods ourselves, so why mess with other races? (Trying not to quote Star Trek here... :shifty:)
Two, we aren't exactly capable of defending ourselves from an alien attack, so why not just keep our heads down until we have death rays and close-range relativistic weapons? I say close-range because chances are, if you can get to another star system in a reasonable amount of time, you can also lob an asteroid there much faster...Which is not something you want to do to these poor schmucks' planet in accordance with policy one.
 
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