IMFD Orbit Insert problems

[Master of Blades]

I Can't get the Orbit Insert program in IMFD to work. On an flight to Mars, as I am approaching Mars, I first run the planet approach program (whilst still outside Mars SOI), to give me a good PeA.

After entering Mars SOI, I try to run the Orbit Insert program. At first, in the BV mode, it shows TtB as a ridiculously high number (usually about 14Mil seconds). But that clears when I run another planetary approach burn, whilst under Mars SOI.

However, that fubars the orbit insert autopilot, i get a TtB of 0, and whilst trying to AB, the spacecraft either goes into a retrograde-ish attitude, and burns up all the fuel with the main engines (pretty much achieving nothing), or, goes into the same attitude, AB tells me "Burning (Main)" but nothing happens.

Any clue why?

 

[to be]

It is probably trying to "Insert" you into solar orbit. Make sure it is set to insert you to mars orbit.

 

[Master of Blades]

Well i have ref set up as Mars, and the graphical data shows Mars too....

 

[to be]

Screenshots?

 

[ar81]

In my experience, Orbit Insert program does not sem to work for IMFD 4.2.1
What I do is that I take BT and divide by 2, and that's the ApT I need to start the retrograde insertion burn.

For example, if BT = 600, it means that when ApT = 300 I need to start the burn. How long does it take? You need to burn retrograde until BT = 0.

I make all my orbit insertions manually.

 

[to be]

I use the latest one now (5.1h, or i, or something ) and it works fine in it. I could have sworn I had used it in the older versions too.

 

[SunScream]

I have the 5.1h problem, too.

I have tried a clean Orbiter setup, with just 5.1h and the Europa-Callisto scenarios installed to minimize interference by other addons, but the problem persists just as in my usual "stuff every addon you find on the internet in it" setup.

Everything works perfectly up to the point you try to use Orbit Insert. I get a brief flash of the "Wait until PeT <20K" message then the orbital radius shown on the destination planet shows as effectively zero. I have tried using a manual Planet Approach as in the tutorial for Europa-Callisto and also using 5.1h's Planet Approach routine, and both work. However the Orbit Insert fails.

Screenshots, as requested:

Orbit Insert fails afer Planet Approach orbit setup:

Note the blue vector line points directly at Callisto. The AutoBurn fails to calculate and you slingshot past the planet unless you perform a manual burn.
Note the word Eccentricity is highlighted - you can click Set and enter a value but nothing changes, including the ecc. value to the right, on which you can also click Set and enter a value. This changes the figure but not the vector line or burn values. Orbit insertion still fails.
Also note you cannot alter the TGT value - it is fixed on Ecliptic.

Planet Approach burn time readout:

Setting AB does nothing.

Manual retrograde to planet approach, as in the Europa-Callisto tutorial:

Still fails. Note there is a difference here - the SOI is noted as LOW in red at the bottom. On the Planet Approach version I did not spot this appear, but I may just have not been looking at the time.


For what it's worth, I think there is a misreading of the SOI with Jupiter and Callisto, which would possibly explain why you get the "Wait" message and could also lock the Ecliptic as the only available plane. The numbers go horribly wrong and the vector image appears as zero as it is pointing at the wrong body.
Just a guess

 

[Master of Blades]

That's pirdy much the same problem i have, but i don't have any moons i the way though (sure, there's Phobos and Deimos, but they are on the other side of mars at the moment). And I'm using IMFD 5.1h

 

[SunScream]

Master of Blades, I think the moons are a red herring - the Orbit Insert is failing in the case of Mars due to 5.1h probably thinking the orbit it is trying to achieve is at the specified periapsis around Sol.

My Mars inserts fail, as does others such as Mercury, with no moons involved.

Lets hope Jarmonik manages to work out the bug before he gets too embroiled with his interactive map
At least 421 works ok.

 

[n72.75]

I have experenced the same problem.

BUGS!!!

oh well preforming a manual burn is not that dificult if you have BTC :speakcool:

 

[DanP]

Same here.

5.1g though, haven't had the time to check out the new version.

I was doing my first Mars hop a couple of weeks ago, and everything was smooth until Orbit insert. Had the same problem as described with IMFD.

I decided to just do it manually but evidently I guesstimated an incorrect burn time so I started burning too early. Apoapsis got to a reasonable altitude (although still very high) but my periapsis sank into the atmosphere. Luckily I read a bit about aerobraking the other day so I was able to slightly use my mistake to my advantage - lowering the apoapsis to where I wanted it. Although I had to waste some fuel raising the periapsis again.

Edit: Unlike SunScream, I can edit the Eccentricity and other variables, but when I rotate back to ecc or any of the other vars, I see a strange line of gibbrish instead of the values I set.

 

[to be]

I did a quick test, and found that if you start orbit insert before entering your target's SOI, it will attempt to circularize you in to the orbit of the body whose SOI you are in. Simply pressing "Ref" then typing the name of the body you want to insert into orbit around fixed it for me in 5.1h.

 

[SunScream]

I had a go at Orbit Insert before SOI but it fails just as before.
I tried it with manual Planet Approach and with 5.1h's Planet Approach.

Pre-Planet Approach condition:

Post Planet Approach burn:

Switched to Orbit Insert - shows Jupiter:

Note the planned orbit ring and TargetOrbit info.

Orbit Insert - switched to REF Callisto - fail:

Note there is no TargetOrbit info, now CurrentState. Cannot adjust TGT from Ecliptic.

Velocity screen shows huge time to burn in this case:

I thought this burn time would correspond to Jupiter Periapsis, but it is not...

I decided to see when the burn would be and what the end result would be:

The blue Plan line on the Map display has that straight line on it at all zooms, it is not an artifact.

Later still, even more peculiarity:

This orbit ring in the Plan sort of corresponds to my start position around Europa, or Europa's SOI.

Shortly after the orbit insertion burn:

Callisto is behind the "a" of Interplanetary. My position seems to be fairly close to the point the map's plan went wierd in the previous screen.

 

[to be]

Could you post your scenario so I can try under the same conditions? It works ok for me.

 

[SunScream]

To be:

1. Europa to Callisto 0002 0001 0001.scn

Quicksave of the approach to Callisto.
To do: Set PeD to 250k and go into orbit. Thats all.

Im thinking that I am missing something in the install. Did you overwrite/upgrade from an earlier version of IMFD 5?
Can you also try a clean Orbiter setup with just 5.1h installed to see if it is using something that is not included with the 5.1h package, please?

Thanks very much for your time helping out on this.

 

[jarmonik]

Orbit Insert Fix

Hello,

I have uploaded new version that should fix the problem with Orbit Insert. Could someone test it.

 

[to be]

I tested your mission, and I discovered something very interesting. I had the same problem you did, IMFD would not recognize Callisto as a target for orbit insert. So instead, I used the "circularize" fuction of IMFD's orbital menu to insert me in to orbit (waited for Dv to be min, then activated autoburn). Then, I burned prograde, and ejected from Callisto, and, thanks to Jupiter, made a nice figure 8 pattern back to callisto. Before entering Callisto's SOI, I made a burn so my orbit would be hyperbolic again, and tried again with orbit insert. I had the same problem, so I used the scenario editor to create a NEW DG right on top of yours. It had no problem at all using orbit insert. So it looks like there is a bug, but in order to figure it out, you would need to check every button you pressed and setting you chose in IMFD, and find out which is causing the problem. :blink:

Jarmonik, does that make sense in context to your fix?

 

[to be]

Tested it with your new version, and it works! Excellent jarmonik.

 

[jarmonik]

The blue Plan line on the Map display has that straight line on it at all zooms, it is not an artifact.

The reference of the course program is set to Callisto even if you are not close to Callisto. You could try to disable "Secure Cutoff" from configuration page.

 

[SunScream]

Jarmonik,
Orbit Insert works and you can set eccentric orbits too.
The screen now shows TargetOrbit instead of CurrentState.

TGT still stays stuck on Ecliptic though, but this setting appears to make no difference to the final orbit anyway.
The word Eccentricity still shows as a selectable parameter.

Thank you to Jarmonik for the quick fix.
Thanks also to To be for his willingness to test and to everyone else for their input.