Mike Collins is NOT grumpy

[David413]

From NASA Watch:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=28746

After Pete Conrad, probably my next favorite astronaut from the Apollo days...

 

[Suzy]

An opinion I can agree with :

The Earth must become as it appears: blue and white, not capitalist or Communist; blue and white, not rich or poor; blue and white, not envious or envied."

Small, shiny, serene, blue and white, FRAGILE.

Q. That was 40 years ago. Would it look the same today?

A. Yes, from the Moon, but appearances can be deceiving. It's certainly not serene, but definitely fragile, and growing more so. When we flew to the Moon, our population was 3 billion; today it has more than doubled and is headed for 8 billion, the experts say. I do not think this growth is sustainable or healthy. The loss of habitat, the trashing of oceans, the accumulation of waste products - this is no way to treat a planet.​

 

[Usonian]

I was just writing about Michael Collins in another thread. His book is the absolute best of the various astronaut autobiographies. Not only did he write every word himself (no ghosts or co-authors) but the writing is first rate.

One thing he said has stuck with me for over thirty years, now. Writing in 1974 Collins summed up Buzz Aldrin's emotional problems this way: "Fame has not worn well on Buzz. I think he resents not being first on the moon more than he appreciated being second."

It's a nice thing to recall when some ambition of mine is thwarted, or someone else appears to be pulling ahead of me in life's various races -- don't let disappointments overwhelm appreciation for successes attained. It's also seems that Buzz Aldrin has gotten a firmer grip on himself since Collins wrote that, and I am glad. Perhaps Buzz has finally concluded when it comes to walking on the moon ANY number you draw is pretty damn good.

 

[Andy44]

Buzz has also been better able to cope with publicity than Armstrong.

 

[David413]

Buzz has also been better able to cope with publicity than Armstrong.

I'm not sure if it's a question of "coping", I think Neil just felt like "I did my job, now I want to live my life". Mike's comments about heros and publicity provide a pretty good insight into the mentality of that group of the astronaut corps. I recommend this week's Time magazine article about the moonwalkers for a little more info on the group.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1910599_1910769,00.html

 

[Moonwalker]

I do not think this growth is sustainable or healthy. The loss of habitat, the trashing of oceans, the accumulation of waste products - this is no way to treat a planet.

It is not the growth. It is political misperformance rather than lack. There would be enough for anybody and there would be no need to destroy parts of the nature.

 

[Usonian]

It is not the growth. It is political misperformance rather than lack. There would be enough for anybody and there would be no need to destroy parts of the nature.

And there is where you miss the essence of being American. Very few of us try to define "enough" -- strive for just that -- then when we get enough, just kick back and enjoy. No. We want "more." Of course, that ambition has no end.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Buzz has also been better able to cope with publicity than Armstrong.

I wouldn't say he has "coped" particularly well at all.

In his autobiography "Magnificent Desolation" ([ame="http://www.amazon.com/Magnificent-Desolation-Long-Journey-Home/dp/0307463451/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248012169&sr=1-1"]Amazon.com: Magnificent Desolation: The Long Journey Home from the Moon: Buzz Aldrin, Ken Abraham: Books[/ame]) he admits that he's suffered from clinical depression, has been an alcoholic, and has been addicted to plastic surgery. He's also currently on his third marriage. And he doesn't even give interviews about Apollo anymore, unless he's paid handsomely for it.

He says however, that he’s more productive now than he ever was as an astronaut, because he has now learned how to deal with his fame.

None of the Apollo 11 astronauts have coped particularly well with their subsequent fame.

 

[David413]

None of the Apollo 11 astronauts have coped particularly well with their subsequent fame.

While I agree with the assessment that Buzz didn't cope too well following Apollo 11, how are you defining "coping" with regards to Neil and Mike? Neil went on to have a very successful time as a professor and Mike was the director of the National Air and Space museum. Seems as if they both "coped" as well as any other person could be expected to considering the fame they achieved.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

While I agree with the assessment that Buzz didn't cope too well following Apollo 11, how are you defining "coping" with regards to Neil and Mike? Neil went on to have a very successful time as a professor and Mike was the director of the National Air and Space museum. Seems as if they both "coped" as well as any other person could be expected to considering the fame they achieved.

I'm not saying that they didn't cope in terms of their achievements in their own lives, I am merely saying that they did not cope well mentally - shall we say, they didn't cope well with their "acceptance of celebrity status".

Neither of them particularly like giving interviews about Apollo 11, and both are known to be reclusive. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, but for people who are as widely known as they are, you'd think that they would be a little more extraverted. However, I'm not saying that I think they should be. If I had been on Apollo 11, I would be exactly the same - I would not want the media spotlight to be on me all the time.

What I'm trying to say is that, despite their status, neither of them consider themselves to be celebrities. But that may be more a good thing than a bad thing.

 

[Andy44]

You think maybe NASA kind of dropped the ball on assisting the crews in dealing with lots of publicity and the inevitable feelings of being on the backside of one's career? I guess nobody ever thought about it until after the fact; the focus was on getting to the moon and getting back, whatever happens afterwards is all hypothetical. And the astronauts were all deemed to be stable personalities so who'd have though they would have issues?

It's similar in some ways, but with important differences, to the way the military deals with returning veterans. What happens after you come home is an afterthought. Not until it's too late does anyone get serious about preparing people for the afterwards.

 

[Moonwalker]

I guess nobody ever thought about it until after the fact; the focus was on getting to the moon and getting back, whatever happens afterwards is all hypothetical. And the astronauts were all deemed to be stable personalities so who'd have though they would have issues?

I think that's quite right. Just remember the words of Buzz Aldrin in In the Shadow of the Moon (at about 01:29:30), if you have seen it:

I knew that anyone who was on the first lunar landing was certainly gonna be propelled into the public view in an enormous way. But awareness was troublesome and interfered during the mission, but it's nothing like what happens after the mission, and for the rest of your life. You are the person now, not just an average fighter pilot, who did this and that pretty well. But this guy walked on the moon. And now I have to sorta uphold that image for the rest of my life, no matter what I do.

And this is just followed by a statement of Alan Bean:

I can't think it was negative thing about Neil Armstrong. I think it's wonderful that he has been the first man on the moon. Even now he is somewhat reclusive, then that helps to preserve the image. That's a tough role. I'd love to do that [laughing] but I'd hate to try to fill that role. That's a tough role. Boy.

 

[pattersoncr]

Anyone wondering how Buzz is coping should check him out recording with Snoop Dog:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f7...xperience-w-snoop-dogg-and-talib-kweli#player

"I have two passions, space exploration and hip-hop"

...one of the funniest things I've seen in quite some time.

 

[garyw]

You think maybe NASA kind of dropped the ball on assisting the crews in dealing with lots of publicity and the inevitable feelings of being on the backside of one's career? I guess nobody ever thought about it until after the fact; the focus was on getting to the moon and getting back, whatever happens afterwards is all hypothetical. And the astronauts were all deemed to be stable personalities so who'd have though they would have issues?

NASA don't offer any support. This was probably best demonstrated when someone (and I forget who) commented about Lisa Nowak and had this to say.

"One day you are on top of the world talking to Kings, Queen's and presidents and the next day you don't even have a reserved parking space".

What they are referring to is being prime crew. As prime you get reserved parking spaces next to the main buildings. On orbit you get to talk to all sorts of dignitaries and then when you come back to Earth.... nothing. No parking space. nothing.

Obviously, this is more relevant to shuttle crews than the crew of Apollo 11.

 

[bpops]

Ha, this guys sounds awesome:

[FONT=geneva,arial,verdana][SIZE=-1]Celebrities? What nonsense, what an empty concept for a person to be, as my friend the great historian Daniel Boorstin put it, "known for his well-known-ness." How many live-ins, how many trips to rehab, maybe--wow--you could even get arrested and then you would really be noticed. Don't get me started.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=geneva,arial,verdana][SIZE=-1]Q. Oodles?? But don't you have any keen insights?

A. Oh yeah, a whole bunch, but I'm saving them for the 50th.[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Messierhunter]

Very few of us try to define "enough" -- strive for just that -- then when we get enough, just kick back and enjoy. No. We want "more." Of course, that ambition has no end.

A man without ambition, who only wants just enough to survive, will find it very difficult to provide for a family. But then again, if you accept the premise that earth is really that fragile, a family is necessarily a bad thing.