Project N1-L3 Soviet Lunar Program Development

[Columbia42]

Will the panel be functional ?

In the near future there will be a functional 2D panel in addition to the VC and someday I hope to have a functional VC as well.

 

[4throck]

Perfect! I'm happy to be helping. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need anything too fancy. Sometimes too much detail on 3D models gives a cartoon feeling.

The panels look great As you are going full 3D (lots of work there), would it help if I sent you the separate panels modeled in 3D and textured ? I can do it in SketchUp (.skp) faster , but I don't have the time right now to manage conventions to .3ds or .msh . Anyway, if it helps (you'd just have to place them), I'll do it

Another thing (again subject to my available time ) do you need some more meshes for the lunar EVA ? My guess is that Leonov lands on the Moon and plants a flag and sets a camera up on a tripod Do you need something like that done?

 

[Columbia42]

Thanks 4throck, 3D panel models would be great. As for the lunar EVA meshes, Jean-Marie Le Cosperec's Celestia adddon includes meshes of things like tripod, rocks, assorted boxes of things that can be placed on the Moon (Eventually I'm thinking maybe unpackable UCGO cargos.)

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

I'm trying to implement the LOK's RCS system but I really can't make heads or tails of it. As far as I can tell the two forward and backward facing thrusters at the front of the LOK in this picture are forward/backward translational RCS.

I think these thrusters (there are four placed around the circumference of the spacecraft) are translational RCS thrusters on the X and Y axes.

I think the center engine in this picture is a standard Soyuz engine for making orbital changes while in Lunar orbit. The four nozzles surrounding it, as far as I can tell, make up the Block I engine for TEI and course corrections.

Other than that I can't tell where anything is. From what I've read it seems that there should be rotational RCS at the base of the spacecraft as well as on top of the BO. Does anyone know where these are so I can add them to the model?

 

[4throck]

Just follow Soyuz for the back of the BO (front is diferent).

From this image it looks very much the same regarding general placement. The rotation RCS are around the back of the LOK. You can see one (gray "box") extending from the spacecraft, to the top of the main engine.

Also, you can see it on this diagram:

---------- Post added 07-15-11 at 11:46 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-14-11 at 04:03 PM ----------

And here's a cleaned up version of the BO panel:

The source image is worse than the others, but for now here it is. At least it is corrected regarding geometry (the top part is at an angle), so you can use it on you meshes.

 

[Columbia42]

Thanks for the panel, 4throck. Does anyone have any idea of its placement in the BO? I assume since it has to do with rendezvous it would be somewhere near the cupola.

---------- Post added at 04:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 AM ----------

Update: I've finished the LOK RCS and I'm going to finish up the SA and BO models next.

---------- Post added at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 AM ----------

I think I've figured out most of the placement of stuff in the BO except for the sleeping arrangements. I think they're similar to Soyuz so does anyone know what they are like there?

 

[Urwumpe]

I think I've figured out most of the placement of stuff in the BO except for the sleeping arrangements. I think they're similar to Soyuz so does anyone know what they are like there?

The ASTP drawings contain some good information there, the stuff is pretty simple organized, but not sure if you have special sleeping arrangements there.

http://history.nasa.gov/diagrams/bp227.htm

You would need to include that the front part is very likely completely different. No hatch, but propellant tanks outside the pressure vessel, a cupola for better view. The inside of the OM is likely shorter on the LOK, as on the normal Soyuz. The front likely contains the big OM panel, with the cupola extending above it.

There is always an bench like structure in the OMs, and a folding table, I would expect this feature on the LOK as well.

also look here for some more pictures of the OM:

http://www.myspacemuseum.com/lok1.htm

This photograph shows the position of the panel:

(Hey, the old one still exists)

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/mwade/graphics/graume74.htm

 

[4throck]

And so there's one more panel on the OM (visible on the last photo)...

I've started to model the return module panels:

Not 100% accurate regarding how many centimeters the buttons extend and texturing is rudimentary (just the cleaned up texture projected) but I think that it does the job I'll move on to the other panel and then see about this new panel in OM :thumbup:

 

[Columbia42]

Looks great, 4throck! Here's the next round of VC screenshots (Mostly the BO).

The open SA hatch, storage and bunks.

Looking through the BO cupola.

Looking through the hatch into the BO.

Looking back through the hatch into the SA.

The cupola, panel and joystick.

 

[boby_nadeau]

it looks very good !

 

[Urwumpe]

And so there's one more panel on the OM (visible on the last photo)...

Yes, the diagram did also mention it, as "ПСБ-1", so not a surprise there. The basic Soyuz OM setup had not been changed much there.

The panel is named "Пульт сближения" which means "Rendezvous Panel". This likely relates more to the role of the panel as to the function, it is simply the panel that is used during the rendezvous operations.

Can't tell you much about how it looks like in detail, it is somewhere between the old (Soyuz-7K) and the new (Soyuz-T) OM panels.

 

[hachiman]

Here's a vid of Mishin giving a tour of the lander. Shows the cockpit too which I hope helps.
http://www.starbase1.co.uk/n1/images/Animation and Video/slides/mishin-speaks_en.html

 

[4throck]

And here's the 3D version of the other return module panel:

Columbia, I'll PM you the models so you can add them to your meshes. Regarding the interior of the modules, I'd just cover them with a general "cloth" texture. Something that looks right but doesn't distract .

 

[Columbia42]

Here's the SA VC with 4throck's panels:

 

[4throck]

Nice Looking good!

You have the left panel upside down.

I've started to prepare the second panel in the BO. Here's the general layout, using the photos avaliable:

I can reconstruct it using better photos from the PDF and the BO panels that we already have.

:thumbup:

 

[Urwumpe]

The scale is just a bit off - the panels are about 70% of the size they should be. Take the Soyuz T(M) panels as reference for the size, the objects in these panels are the same as for the LOK.

 

[hachiman]

Would this help?

 

[Columbia42]

Did the L3 cosmonauts wear spacesuits during launch and reentry? I know there are two spacesuits (one Orlan and one Kretchet-94) stored in the LOK BO but I doubt the cosmonauts could fit into their seats while wearing them (especially the Kretchet) and extra flight suits that would only be worn during launch and reentry doesn't sound like something that would be provided on an N1-L3 flight.

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

Also, before Soyuz 11 cosmonauts didn't wear spacesuits in the Soyuz spacecraft.

 

[ky]

I dont know if this will halp,but heres a link with interior shots of the lander http://www.myspacemuseum.com/lkinter.htm .

 

[4throck]

Did the L3 cosmonauts wear spacesuits during launch and reentry? I know there are two spacesuits (one Orlan and one Kretchet-94) stored in the LOK BO but I doubt the cosmonauts could fit into their seats while wearing them (especially the Kretchet) and extra flight suits that would only be worn during launch and reentry doesn't sound like something that would be provided on an N1-L3 flight.

---------- Post added at 05:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 PM ----------

Also, before Soyuz 11 cosmonauts didn't wear spacesuits in the Soyuz spacecraft.

Not sure about the suits. I'd say they didn't.

There are a lot of details about this missions that are missing.

For example, it is known that a security LK lander would land before the actual mission. Also, a Lunokhod would scout the landing area and provide a radio beacon for landing.
But I've never seen any diagram of the proposed launch configurations, for example. And what would a manned Lunokhod look like while retaining its remote rover capabilities?
Speaking of it, I can't resist to post this video (excellent soundtrack ):

 

[Urwumpe]

Why a manned Lunokhod? of course it is unmanned in their plans.

also I think the astronauts have been launching shirt-sleeve, but switch to the suits for critical operations already.

I can't tell what purpose the second mentioned panel in the LK has, the name translates to something like "finger-armrest (for) guiding motion" or "finger control stick movement", the middle part of the word is the Russian term for "joystick control". I suspect it is better translated as "fine motion joystick control"

I suspect it applies to the manual control of the LK and is not a panel by itself.

The second panel (on the left side of the window) of the LK also has a lot of similarities to aeronautic circuit breaker panels, possible that it is that.