NASSP Documentation is Incorrect -Corrections are here

[polaris149Tiberius]

NASSP Documentation is Incorrect

Guys in the document Flying Saturn V.pdf, the documentation that tells you how to run the AGC for lift off is incorrect. I have found what the correct proceedure is.

For the part that says:

"So, you can use VERB 21 ENTER to change the azimuth value, then press

PROG to accept the value being displayed. Alternatively, if you're happy with
the value, use VERB 33 ENTER to 'proceed without data': the computer will​

then use the displayed azimuth value for the launch."

This should read:

So, you can use VERB 21 ENTER to change the azimuth value, then press
PROG to accept the value being displayed. Alternatively, if you're happy with
the value, use NOUN 33 ENTER to 'proceed without data': the computer will​

then use the displayed azimuth value for the launch.


For this part that reads:

"Either way, the computer will respond with a flashing VERB 06 NOUN 44,
displaying the desired apogee and perigee in tens of meters. Again, update​

them if desired, or use VERB 33 ENTER to continue."

it SHOULD read:

Either way, the computer will respond with a flashing VERB 06 NOUN 33,
displaying the desired apogee and perigee in tens of meters. Again, update​

them if desired, or use NOUN 33 ENTER to continue.


I have tested the proceedure using the official document and it did not work, I then read all the documentation from the addon for the AGC, and then tested the way I have changed the values and it works perfectly.

These values MUST be changed in the documentation for the flight to do correctly.
NASSP is a wonderful addon that incorporates the actual code from the original AGC source and has been adapted to control the NASSP vehicle. It is a super cool addon but takes a bit of planning and reading of the install documentation to correctly install.
This addon is for advanced users and should not be attempted by new users to Orbiter. Else you will have some questions to post here. I am new to NASSP but have been extensively testing it and its fun if you like the idea of using the original AGC.
Have fun and god's speed John Glenn

 

[Moonwalker]

Please report NASSP related bugs and errors in the development forum:

http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/

Also, you should report which NASSP version do you use. The Flying Saturn V.pdf doesn't correspond to the current version of Project Apollo - NASSP anyway as it was not updated for 3 years

 

[Moonwalker]

If you use the current version of Project Apollo - NASSP just use the documents contained in the 'Check List' Folder.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

In the latest version

Hi thanks for the quick reply.
In the latest version of ProjectApollo_CVS_20080527.zip the outdated documents are still located in the "doc" folder. Shouldnt these files be deleted or put in a legacy folder so that users know not to use them accept with previous versions? The documents dont say NOT to use them nor do they say for what version they are for. If you guys want some help with the documentation for the latest NASSP, I am happy to help. Let me know. I would love to be a part of such a great project.

By the way I really like your mod.

 

[Moonwalker]

Thanks for the compliments. The team did and does very hard work for some years now.

For an answer concerning the old/new documents have a look here:
http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=2819

I'm not sure if there is help required at the moment on documentation. Since the project became very complex within the last years the best thing would be to visit the forums we use (http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/) and ask for.

 

[Quick_Nick]

This is for NASSP 7 right? You really should make this clear.
(I only assume 7 because I vaguely remember this working on 6.4.3)

In any case, thanks for setting this right.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

The reference is incorrect too

The reference is incorrect too

Hi, Again I must report that your responce Moonwalker is not giving a remedy to the issue at hand. The abscence of updated documentation for the AGC. There are plenty of documents in the checklist folder on panel checklists but thats all.

Please report NASSP related bugs and errors in the development forum:

http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/

I am not really reporting a bug in the program or the AGC, as Im sure it works very well. I may have to post the errors in the documentaion to the development forum you listed here.

I'm not sure if there is help required at the moment on documentation. Since the project became very complex within the last years the best thing would be to visit the forums we use (http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/) and ask for.

I am sure that help is required for documentation. Your addon is super cool, but the documentation that comes with it is incorrect, and does not distinguish which version it is printed for. Leaving us with the task of making heads or tails of how to use Project Apollo.

Also, you should report which NASSP version do you use.

This is for NASSP 7 right? You really should make this clear.
(I only assume 7 because I vaguely remember this working on 6.4.3)

My reply above tells the version of NASSP with the name of the zip file
ProjectApollo_CVS_20080527.zip
Yes its version 7 beta.

If you use the current version of Project Apollo - NASSP just use the documents contained in the 'Check List' Folder.

The reference to the 'Check List' directory in the Project Apollo - NASSP directory does not have any information for the AGC.
It has alot of checklists and xls files for calculating things, but it doesnt say how to use the AGC.

I have been browsing all documents that come with NASSP and all the documents that are currently given are either out of date, are incorrect, or inconsistant with the programs that are needed like TLI, LOI, DOI, Orbit Plane Change, Orbit Adjustment, CSI, CDH, TPI, TPM, Rendezvous Breaking Phase, DPS, RCS burn, APS, LM PDI Breaking, LM Approach, LM Auto Landing, LM DPS Abort, LM APS Anbort. in the DSKY or the AGC I am sorry to say.


I think I can do 1 thing with the AGC after reading all the documentation, thats launch into LEO.

I had to use IMFD to get to the moon, and IMFD to preform the LOI1 and LOI2 and then there is no AGC for powered decent.
LOLA helped me with that and it was manual at the end because LOLA couldnt control the LEM with the quads because they arent strong enough to use small burns to control the LM. It takes long burns to control the LEM even just RCS.

For an answer concerning the old/new documents have a look here:
http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=2819

I posted this thread and have read the reply by you Moonwalker. There are no documents concerning the AGC in the checklist folder. My reply to Tschachim is there. Thank you for the link.

Believe me I love this addon, but all the documentation that you refered me to in the checklists folder are checklists for the CSM/LM panels and NO AGC documentation.

The AGC in your addon is a simply marvelous addition to any Apollo addon, but it really needs to work, and it really needs to show how to use it with up to date documentation for the AGC.

I dont want to mince words here but the AGC is my MAIN DRAW to the NASSP addon.
I like the panels which are cool as heck, but flipping buttons wont get me to the Moon. I like the realism of the addon. It is beyond cool as far as realism. It would be nice to be able to see it get to the moon with no outside MFDs and land. That would be the coolest.

It looks like maybe it did at one time. In that case I will need to get the legacy versions so I can fully enjoy this wonderfully awesome addon.

A very nice addon not-with-standing. But again, in need of correct documentation. I will report the inconsistancies I have found at the NASSP forums in hopes helping the development team identify what is needed.
Thanks NASSP guys. Even without the AGC docs, this addon ROCKS!!!

 

[Tschachim]

I should clarify here that in the doc folder besides old stuff we need to (re)move soon (that's why we still call it beta) there are mainly checklists and excels for some calculations. For reference information and tutorials we have our wiki here: http://nassp.sf.net

This documentation isn't complete neither, but the stuff you're looking for is here (or will be here) and not in the doc folder: http://nassp.sf.net/wiki/Category:Apollo_Guidance_Computer

Also please be aware of that there are 2 AGC implementations actually depending on the realsim mode you're using, the Simple AGC and the Virtual AGC (see wiki for details).

EDIT: By the way, I just checked the Simple AGC P01, the corrections you mentioned in your first post are wrong, the documentation is correct actually.

Cheers
Tschachim

 

[pattersoncr]

The reference to the 'Check List' directory in the Project Apollo - NASSP directory does not have any information for the AGC.
It has alot of checklists and xls files for calculating things, but it doesnt say how to use the AGC.

Yes it does.

The file "G&C all" contained in the folder listed is a NASSP adaptation of exactly what the astronuats used to operate the AGC.

Back to your original question, for vAGC scenarios, the required steps for startup and operation of the AGC are contained in the document "Launch all" in the "Launch checklist" folder.

 

[Tschachim]

Yeah, pattersoncr is right, of course, the checklists do contain all that, but as mentioned it's intended to be used with the Virtual AGC. Since polaris149Tiberius was talking about the Simple AGC in the first post I didn't mention that.

By the way, I should mention that we're working on a simplification of our realism modes: We'll drop the so-called Standard Mode and keep Quickstart Mode (everything runs automatically, the Simple AGC is used internally, but the typical user of this mode won't notice that very much as only very few "panel interaction" is necessary) and Virtual AGC mode (the real thing), so the Simple AGC P01 this thread is about won't be used anymore.

The real (= Virtual AGC) P01 is slightly different and covered properly in the documentation pattersoncr mentioned.

More infos about this change is here: http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit/mscforum/index.php?topic=1742.0

Cheers
Tschachim

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Thanks for the information

Thanks for the information. It is nice to bring you guys out of the woodwork. I LOVE your addon. Its incredible!! You are right the documented way works with the beta version 7. Thanks for the links. Ill check it out.
Thanks again for your quick responces.