New Orbiter Beta Released (r.44, Dec 5 2015)

meson800

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Should the installation checker be discarded altogether? It's a bit of a hack, in particular the fact that the orbiter.exe executable is replacing itself with a different file (in fact I am surprised that virus scanners don't get troubled by this).

I suppose the one useful function performed by the installation checker is for the presence of the runtime dlls. If you tried to run Orbiter without the correct runtimes, you'd probably get a cryptic error message that wouldn't help most people. So checking for that is probably fairly important (although the current VS2008 runtimes should probably be present on most people's machines).

When I create a new Orbiter instance, I don't run the verification program, I just delete orbiter.exe and move orbiter.bin into its place and rename. But I do that because I know that Orbiter works on my computer, and deleting/moving/renaming is faster than waiting for the DirectX checks to finish.

Maybe add a button to skip verification and just copy orbiter.bin and rename? That would mean first time users probably wouldn't skip verification, but it would make life easier for creating your n'th Orbiter install.
 

Hlynkacg

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Just installed the new Beta, has anyone else encountered this issue?

october2015_02.png


It appears to be a mismatch between tile elevations.
 

martins

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Just to keep the momentum going ...

Committed r.21.

This should fix the problem with the Map MFD. Ground track should now be shown when target is a moon.

Also, installation check is skipped for now.

Yes. ;) If you ask me.

By the way, it seems that the map MFD does not display the ground-track / orbital-plane of the TARGET...
I'm not sure since when, but r20 does not show it.
The attached scenario should show the orbital-plane of the Moon (Target), but doesn't.
The TARGET setting in the scenario also does not seem to be recognized, so you might need to select it manually after run.

Just installed the new Beta, has anyone else encountered this issue?

october2015_02.png


It appears to be a mismatch between tile elevations.

Is it reproducible? Do you have a scenario? The textures look a bit like the older Moon textures. Can you check if you have the latest texture set for the Moon? Simply check the sizes or md5sums of your package files against the numbers on http://mirror.orbiter-radio.co.uk/orbiter/assets/moon.html. If you don't have the latest texture packs, could you install the new ones to see if the problem persists? Ideally, delete the Textures/Moon folder before unpacking the texture packs, to make sure there are no obsolete files left behind.

Edit: actually, scrap that. It looks like the webpage still references the old textures. Let me just update that, and then maybe you could download the new set.
 

martins

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New texture set for the Moon

There is now a new texture set for the Moon available at http://mirror.orbiter-radio.co.uk/orbiter/assets/moon.html.

The new set is based on the LRO LROC-WAC (Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter Camera Wide Angle Camera) Global Mosaic 100m, while the old textures were based on Clementine data.

Note that the old and new texture sets can't be mixed. If you want to try the new set, you should rename your Textures/Moon directory to something else (e.g. Textures/Moon_Clementine) before installing the new set.

It's a fairly big download if you want to go for the full resolution. If you are happy with the old set you can stick with it. However, if you were experiencing artefacts with the old set (elevation gaps) and you are going to try the new set, please let me know if the new set fixes the problems.
 

martins

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Is it possible to add the additional ComboBox in the Video Tab to select not only the device but also the platform.

I have for example system with standard intel HD GPU and also the AMD Radeon 8870M.

On Video Tab I can only see and select the Intel HD.
Well, the device enumerator is already set up to detect all devices across all platforms:
Code:
	DirectDrawEnumerateEx (DriverEnumCallback, NULL,
		DDENUM_ATTACHEDSECONDARYDEVICES |
		DDENUM_DETACHEDSECONDARYDEVICES |
		DDENUM_NONDISPLAYDEVICES);

If you can only see primary device modes then this may be a limitation of DX7 on modern hardware architectures. Does the DX9 client enumerate both cards? Do you have a way to swap the primary and secondary devices to see if Orbiter can then see the Radeon?
 

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Yes it is reproducible, the scenario is the default Delta Glider at Brighton Beach file.

I will delete the texture folder and reinstall, see if that clears it up.
 

Enjo

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Can't you smell my T levels?
For me, the secondary card is visible only after enabling a "second" screen in the Display Preferences, which corresponds to my secondary GeForce. Have you tried this?
 

asbjos

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While we are talking about textures, when will high-resolution tiles of the polar areas on Earth come?
Here at the map picker, only latitudes below ~56 degrees north and above ~56 degrees south are covered.
 

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And could we have torrents on the main texture page?

To date we have:
Earth
Moon (maybe old Clementine set)
 
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Marg

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asbjos - I also suffer from this discrimination of people in northern latitudes :)
 

kuddel

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This should fix the problem with the Map MFD. Ground track should now be shown when target is a moon.
Confirmed! It works! :thumbup:

Also, installation check is skipped for now.
Nice!

Unfortunately I found another issue with the Map MFD...
The orbital-plane of "self" seems to move, when the ship is still sitting on the runway.
Easy to reproduce by the same scenario posted by me.
When running "time-warped" (T), the orbital-plane of GL-01 (self) moves westward; and therefore no longer runs through the Gliders current ground position...

By the way, should I post those findings in the 'official' forum/thread? Or is it O.K. to directly report Pass/Fail here?
 
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Hlynkacg

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Ideally, delete the Textures/Moon folder before unpacking the texture packs, to make sure there are no obsolete files left behind.

...

If you were experiencing artifacts with the old set (elevation gaps) and you are going to try the new set, please let me know if the new set fixes the problems.

Just a heads up, I just did as you suggested with a clean install and it seems to have fixed the problem.

I suspect you were correct and that some of the "legacy" tiles hadn't been properly overwritten when I updated my beta installation the first time around.
 

martins

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Committed r.22.

This should fix all issues with the Map MFD I was aware of:
  • Orbit plane was shifting for idle vessels
  • Custom marker sets were never displayed
  • Toggling custom marker sets on/off was offset by one line, and last line was skipped [issue #1202]
  • Terminator lines/shading could not be switched on once it was off
Let me know if there are still problems with the Map MFD.

Unfortunately I found another issue with the Map MFD...
The orbital-plane of "self" seems to move, when the ship is still sitting on the runway.
Easy to reproduce by the same scenario posted by me.
When running "time-warped" (T), the orbital-plane of GL-01 (self) moves westward; and therefore no longer runs through the Gliders current ground position...

By the way, should I post those findings in the 'official' forum/thread? Or is it O.K. to directly report Pass/Fail here?
You are welcome to post bugs/fix reports here, but if I don't reply within a few days and the problems are not fixed, it's better to also log them in the bug tracker at http://orbiter-forum.com/project.php?projectid=1 to make sure they don't get lost in the clutter.
Does this apply to both Lo-Res and Hi-Res packs?
Yes.
 

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martins, I'd like your input on something. For Apollo, when the Saturn 1st stage engines ignite, there is a device to hold the vehicle down until thrust has built up to full. We simulated this in 2010-P1 by applying a large negative force to counteract the thrust. In the new versions the default "landing gear" is compressible so the hold-down force pushes the vehicle into the ground. I tried to define a non-compressible landing gear using the new API but that resulted in the vehicle being violently ejected into space instantly on first movement. Reducing the hold-down force results in early liftoff, and trying to balance it exactly results in the vehicle sinking into the ground during run-up. There are suggestions I should scrap the hold-down feature entirely and "start" the engines at T0, which would throw off the fuel usage numbers (and consequently 1st stage performance) and require a bunch of hacking to bring those back into the neighborhood of reality. Can you give us some kind of fix for this (a means of disabling the compression, or some other means of holding the stack down) or should I consider hold-down to be a permanently broken idea and redesign for an instant start at T0?
 

DaveS

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martins, I'd like your input on something. For Apollo, when the Saturn 1st stage engines ignite, there is a device to hold the vehicle down until thrust has built up to full. We simulated this in 2010-P1 by applying a large negative force to counteract the thrust. In the new versions the default "landing gear" is compressible so the hold-down force pushes the vehicle into the ground. I tried to define a non-compressible landing gear using the new API but that resulted in the vehicle being violently ejected into space instantly on first movement. Reducing the hold-down force results in early liftoff, and trying to balance it exactly results in the vehicle sinking into the ground during run-up. There are suggestions I should scrap the hold-down feature entirely and "start" the engines at T0, which would throw off the fuel usage numbers (and consequently 1st stage performance) and require a bunch of hacking to bring those back into the neighborhood of reality. Can you give us some kind of fix for this (a means of disabling the compression, or some other means of holding the stack down) or should I consider hold-down to be a permanently broken idea and redesign for an instant start at T0?
Can't you attach the Saturn to the ML? That is how we do it for SSU, the main shuttle vessel is attached to the MLP and all of the T0 constraints are met, then a signal is sent and the vessel is detached.
 

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Can't you attach the Saturn to the ML? That is how we do it for SSU, the main shuttle vessel is attached to the MLP and all of the T0 constraints are met, then a signal is sent and the vessel is detached.

That is exactly the same way I designed Jarvis DLL and ELIS before.

I really think it's the very best way
 

martins

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From your description I wasn't entirely sure how you apply the hold-down forces, but here are a few thoughts:

Making the landing gear stiffer can't help. While it means that the vessel sinks less deep into the ground, the spring energy stored in the compressed landing gear is exactly the same as for the more compressible gear, and it will still all be released at once when the bolts are blown. The only reason a more compressible gear might behave better is because its eigenfrequency is lower, resulting in a more stable numerical solution.

The problem with applying a fixed hold-down force is that at equilibrium the landing gear acts like a compressed spring, catapulting the vessel up when the clamps are released.

The correct way to implement the hold down force imo would be to balance it with gravitational force and engine thrust:

1. while the rocket sits on the ground idly, no hold down forces are applied.

2. when the engines are firing up (assuming they are not at full thrust instantly) no hold down forces are applied until the thrust equals the weight of the launch stack. At this point, the landing gear will no longer be compressed, and does not store any more spring energy.

3. when engine thrust exceeds weight, you apply hold-down forces that exactly balance that difference, keeping the vessel on the ground with uncompressed gear

4. upon release of the clamps, the hold-down forces are removed instantly. The upward acceleration should then be smooth, because the gear won't release any energy.

One potential problem with this approach is that during phase 3, there is no lateral surface friction, which means that the vessel might start sliding. To avoid that, you should probably increase the hold-down forces slightly, and define very high lateral friction coefficients for the relevant touchdown points. In that case, you probably also want to remove the hold-down forces more gradually, to avoid any residual spring effect.

In practice, I guess phase 3 won't last long (only until the engines have stabilised), so maybe the sliding problem won't be severe.

Of course, if your launch platform is defined as a vessel, then Dave's suggestion will be the easiest to implement, and it makes perfect physical sense. If you make the rocket thrust high enough, you would even be able to lift the launch pad! :lol:


Edit: Maybe the two-part force profile of steps 2 and 3 could be replaced by a single linear profile: hold-down force is zero at engine thrust zero, and the difference of engine-thrust minus weight at max thrust, and a linear function of engine thrust in between. This way, the landing gear will be gradually relaxed, and will be fully extended at clamp release. Plus, you would retain lateral friction all the way to release.

martins, I'd like your input on something. For Apollo, when the Saturn 1st stage engines ignite, there is a device to hold the vehicle down until thrust has built up to full. We simulated this in 2010-P1 by applying a large negative force to counteract the thrust. In the new versions the default "landing gear" is compressible so the hold-down force pushes the vehicle into the ground. I tried to define a non-compressible landing gear using the new API but that resulted in the vehicle being violently ejected into space instantly on first movement. Reducing the hold-down force results in early liftoff, and trying to balance it exactly results in the vehicle sinking into the ground during run-up. There are suggestions I should scrap the hold-down feature entirely and "start" the engines at T0, which would throw off the fuel usage numbers (and consequently 1st stage performance) and require a bunch of hacking to bring those back into the neighborhood of reality. Can you give us some kind of fix for this (a means of disabling the compression, or some other means of holding the stack down) or should I consider hold-down to be a permanently broken idea and redesign for an instant start at T0?
 
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