OMP Support

[deltawing777]

I would really love to join an Orbiter-multiplayer-session, but I have no idea of the technical side of multiplayer-sessions:
How to connect to an muliplayer session?
How is time-warp, pausing... handeled?
Were do you plan and organize these multiplayer-sessions?

greetings, HAL9001

1: How to connect: goto omp.dyndns-server.com server website or read this thread
2:Time warp: There is none but we use a modified Arrow Freighter to planet hop Earth to moon in about 10 mins realtime
3: Alot of planning is done on Teamspeak @ omp.dyndns-server.com port 9987 (i upgraded server to win7 should have ts3 back up tonight)
Thats it!

 

[HAL9001]

how can I spawn and edit vessels in multiplayer?
(it looks as anyone could connect at any time - but therefor he first has to start an own scenario and spawn his own ship and then at connection he other players ships are also spawned into his orbiter window and he than can see them live and interact with them)

 

[Carmen A]

Adding custom ships to server list:

http://omp.dyndns-server.com/start.php

 

[deltawing777]

how can I spawn and edit vessels in multiplayer?
(it looks as anyone could connect at any time - but therefor he first has to start an own scenario and spawn his own ship and then at connection he other players ships are also spawned into his orbiter window and he than can see them live and interact with them)

Everything is there all you have to do is read

 

[Carmen A]

I recommend using green pillows while reading new stuff. They relieve stress and relax the eyes thereby increasing information upload rate by 20% :3

 

[deltawing777]

This always worked for me :headbang: :beathead: :headbang:

 

[deltawing777]

12:00 am Sun 28 feb
It seems the "Gear up" bug is not just for the deltaglider. The "gear up" bug also happens with the xr2 with arrowfrieghter. It crashes the other persons client

Repeatable error: yes

Situation: I had arrow frieghter and other person had xr2. The other person did a "gear up" crashed my arrow client. Watched it happen in admin PuTTYtel. I was in sub-orbit other person was taking off from wideawake. Just me and another player on server

addons loaded: AerobrakeMFD,CameraMFD,Orbiter sound,RacecheckpointMFD

Conclusion: It is not just the deltaglider that has "gear up" bug. I do believe it is in the event system somewhere. I have seen it with other combination of vessels as well. Easier problem to spot with "one-on-one" on server.Any more clients then that , looking at PuTTYtel, looks like normal connecting/disconnecting clients

 

[Face]

12:00 am Sun 28 feb
It seems the "Gear up" bug is not just for the deltaglider. The "gear up" bug also happens with the xr2 with arrowfrieghter. It crashes the other persons client

Repeatable error: yes

Situation: I had arrow frieghter and other person had xr2. The other person did a "gear up" crashed my arrow client. Watched it happen in admin PuTTYtel. I was in sub-orbit other person was taking off from wideawake. Just me and another player on server

addons loaded: AerobrakeMFD,CameraMFD,Orbiter sound,RacecheckpointMFD

Conclusion: It is not just the deltaglider that has "gear up" bug. I do believe it is in the event system somewhere. I have seen it with other combination of vessels as well. Easier problem to spot with "one-on-one" on server.Any more clients then that , looking at PuTTYtel, looks like normal connecting/disconnecting clients

This is interesting, because to date I never spotted an XR2 gear-up crash. What I tracked down repeatedly is the DG gear-up crash, and I know where it comes from. Unfortunately, I don't have the XR2 source code, so I can't tell if the XR2 may suffer from the same problem.

In essence, the newly created remote DG is prestine and never created the 2D panel. When the recorded event is played back via clbkPlaybackEvent(), DG code executes a oapiTriggerPanelArea() command. This is where it crashes repeatedly. I guess it is due to the panel never been created on the vessel.

If your observation is repeatable, it would mean that it happens on vessel CLASSES that never experienced a panel creation. I.e. if you have any vessel in your scenario where you brought up the 2D panel already, newly added remote-vessels should not crash you on recorder-events.

A possible experiment would be to have a session with 2 clients, where both use DG. If that works, it'd explain why I've never seen the XR2 crash... simply because I always had an XR2 in the scenario with panels shown.

 

[deltawing777]

This is interesting, because to date I never spotted an XR2 gear-up crash. What I tracked down repeatedly is the DG gear-up crash, and I know where it comes from. Unfortunately, I don't have the XR2 source code, so I can't tell if the XR2 may suffer from the same problem.

In essence, the newly created remote DG is prestine and never created the 2D panel. When the recorded event is played back via clbkPlaybackEvent(), DG code executes a oapiTriggerPanelArea() command. This is where it crashes repeatedly. I guess it is due to the panel never been created on the vessel.

If your observation is repeatable, it would mean that it happens on vessel CLASSES that never experienced a panel creation. I.e. if you have any vessel in your scenario where you brought up the 2D panel already, newly added remote-vessels should not crash you on recorder-events.

A possible experiment would be to have a session with 2 clients, where both use DG. If that works, it'd explain why I've never seen the XR2 crash... simply because I always had an XR2 in the scenario with panels shown.

I will try to do the experiment tonight...I will report my findings back in this thread as well on OMP forums

 

[Face]

I've made progress on debugging that nasty bug.

I can now reproduce it in the DG without OMP loaded. My theory now is, that the oapiTriggerPanelArea() call is using an internal pointer of Orbiter. Maybe Orbiter sets this pointer before calling the appropriate callbacks for the vessel object. I guess it is the focused vessel.

This will create some troubles for me, but I'll see what I can do...

 

[deltawing777]

I've made progress on debugging that nasty bug.

I can now reproduce it in the DG without OMP loaded. My theory now is, that the oapiTriggerPanelArea() call is using an internal pointer of Orbiter. Maybe Orbiter sets this pointer before calling the appropriate callbacks for the vessel object. I guess it is the focused vessel.

This will create some troubles for me, but I'll see what I can do...

I wonder...Does this carry over into the newest orbiter beta also?

 

[deltawing777]

Face using OMP with stock shuttle atlantis stack on server client upon ignition from KSC I get a client crash on game pc. It is repeatable everytime as soon a manual thrust is applyed. Here is orbiter.log error. Is there anything I can do? The only modules running is sound and OMP client
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WARNING: Obsolete API function used: VESSEL::GetNavRecv
At least one active module is accessing an obsolete interface function.
Addons which rely on obsolete functions may not be compatible with
future versions of Orbiter.
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WARNING: Obsolete API function used: VESSEL::SetNavRecv
At least one active module is accessing an obsolete interface function.
Addons which rely on obsolete functions may not be compatible with
future versions of Orbiter.
---------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Face]

Face using OMP with stock shuttle atlantis stack on server client upon ignition from KSC I get a client crash on game pc. It is repeatable everytime as soon a manual thrust is applyed. Here is orbiter.log error. Is there anything I can do? The only modules running is sound and OMP client
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WARNING: Obsolete API function used: VESSEL::GetNavRecv
At least one active module is accessing an obsolete interface function.
Addons which rely on obsolete functions may not be compatible with
future versions of Orbiter.
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WARNING: Obsolete API function used: VESSEL::SetNavRecv
At least one active module is accessing an obsolete interface function.
Addons which rely on obsolete functions may not be compatible with
future versions of Orbiter.
---------------------------------------------------------------

This is no error, it is a warning about the function used being marked obsolete and maybe removed in future Orbiter versions. It is not obviously pointing into an error direction, especially not connected to the described thruster applicance.

I'd have to check that, but I don't have time for it ATM. I don't think you can do anything on your side.

regards,
Face

 

[deltawing777]

ok thanks face

 

[jimblah]

Questions I can't find answers to in the documentation...

If the answers are out there and I've missed them please forgive me.

I'm suggesting to the powers that be in my local community college district that we build a simpit in a hangar at a local airforce base that has been mothballed. I'm trying to determine a clearer picture of OMP's current capabilities and what could be expected in the near future and its long term goals.

Distance - How far from the simpit can clients interact without network latency becoming an issue? What type of network topologies could be implimented to ensure playability and performance?

Spectating - Hop in your buddy's ship and observe as a passenger? Clients can connect and merely observe what's taking place during the simpit's simulation? If so what's the maximum number of clients that can be supported?

Synchronized Orbital Maneuvers - Two shuttles docking with the ISS? If so, what's the maximum number of vessels that can participate in this manner at this time?

Collision Detection - Is this on the horizon for OMP? I've seen collision detection for older versions of Orbiter at the Hangar.

I've installed the latest OMP release in Windows XP and Linux and been able to log onto the server. In linux I used Wine and winetricks to install dotnet1.1 and dotnet2.0 to accomplish this...

So far I have not joined in any activities. My piloting skills are getting better but at the time I considered them attrocious. I'm getting the impression this is the wrong attitude. OMP is a great way for new pilots to learn?

The OMP team is phenominal. Thank you in advance for reading this post and if possible addressing my concerns.

:lol:

 

[deltawing777]

If the answers are out there and I've missed them please forgive me.

I'm suggesting to the powers that be in my local community college district that we build a simpit in a hangar at a local airforce base that has been mothballed. I'm trying to determine a clearer picture of OMP's current capabilities and what could be expected in the near future and its long term goals.

Distance - How far from the simpit can clients interact without network latency becoming an issue? What type of network topologies could be implimented to ensure playability and performance?

Spectating - Hop in your buddy's ship and observe as a passenger? Clients can connect and merely observe what's taking place during the simpit's simulation? If so what's the maximum number of clients that can be supported?

Synchronized Orbital Maneuvers - Two shuttles docking with the ISS? If so, what's the maximum number of vessels that can participate in this manner at this time?

Collision Detection - Is this on the horizon for OMP? I've seen collision detection for older versions of Orbiter at the Hangar.

I've installed the latest OMP release in Windows XP and Linux and been able to log onto the server. In linux I used Wine and winetricks to install dotnet1.1 and dotnet2.0 to accomplish this...

So far I have not joined in any activities. My piloting skills are getting better but at the time I considered them attrocious. I'm getting the impression this is the wrong attitude. OMP is a great way for new pilots to learn?

The OMP team is phenominal. Thank you in advance for reading this post and if possible addressing my concerns.

:lol:

Jim First of all thank you for your kind words. Second I only host the server. So I will only know the capabilites of what I have tryed. I can speculate and give answers to from what I have tested and tryed. But If you want real intelligent hard core answers then Face the creator of OMP/ORL is the man with the plan. He designed it and coded it. So lets see if we can get face in here. He may or may not want to move this to another thread. Let me try to find him

 

[Face]

Distance - How far from the simpit can clients interact without network latency becoming an issue? What type of network topologies could be implimented to ensure playability and performance?

Well, OMP was designed with internet operation in mind. From my tests, a maximum latency of 500ms is on the edge of playability, especially regarding on-orbit operations. This should be enough to have global location separation for both clients and servers.

Spectating - Hop in your buddy's ship and observe as a passenger? Clients can connect and merely observe what's taking place during the simpit's simulation? If so what's the maximum number of clients that can be supported?

Yes, this is already possible. Unfortunately, not every action/animation/sequence can be transmitted. ATM I experiment with Orbiter's recorder events, so it should be possible in future versions to have everything that gets recorded equally transmitted over the wire. In addition, I experimented with event hooking, too, giving the possibility to transmit MFD clicks and panel operations. This way a spectator can e.g. take seat in the DG and see the MFDs change mode...

The maximum number of clients is only limited by the supported client ports on the server (default is 500) and the network traffic generated. The vessel everyone sits in will have to transmit state vectors to every spectator. Depending on machine load, this has a certain threshold. I think it is around 100 clients for modern machines. OMP is using UDP unicast, not multicast, because the latter brings along a whole new set of NAT troubles .

Synchronized Orbital Maneuvers - Two shuttles docking with the ISS? If so, what's the maximum number of vessels that can participate in this manner at this time?

While I focussed on this use-case right from start, it is still not done in a satisfying way. ATM the biggest problem is a rotation bug with docked vessel, when 2 remote vessels dock together.

That said, we already had many situations where 2 or more DGs/XRs were docked to one ISS. It is possible, but not stable yet.

The maximum number is just the same as for the spectator scenario, the involved mechanisms are the same.

Collision Detection - Is this on the horizon for OMP? I've seen collision detection for older versions of Orbiter at the Hangar.

No. OMP is a framework. It has no content for gameplay and is no enhancement of Orbiter physics. It just replicates local vessel on remote clients.

That said, Orulex seems to be working in connection with OMP, from what I heard.

I've installed the latest OMP release in Windows XP and Linux and been able to log onto the server. In linux I used Wine and winetricks to install dotnet1.1 and dotnet2.0 to accomplish this...

The OMP server can be run with Mono on Linux. In fact my private server is a Debian Linux UML 2.4 kernel with Mono 1.2.6, running the Visual Studio compiled DLLs directly.

The OMP client OTOH is of course a mixed-mode C++/C# DLL. Running this in Linux is certainly a challenge .

The OMP team is phenominal. Thank you in advance for reading this post and if possible addressing my concerns.
:lol:

Thanks for the kudos. I hope my reply is answering your questions...

Although there is no official OMP "team", I think deltawing777 is doing a great job hosting his server. Together with Axertans web-page design and artwork by CarmenA, I'd say the OMP "staff" is already bigger than I ever imagined it to be.

regards,
Face

 

[jimblah]

The OMP server can be run with Mono on Linux. In fact my private server is a Debian Linux UML 2.4 kernel with Mono 1.2.6, running the Visual Studio compiled DLLs directly.

The OMP client OTOH is of course a mixed-mode C++/C# DLL. Running this in Linux is certainly a challenge

I was able to log onto the OMP server with dotnet1.1 and 2.0 with winetricks. dotnet3.0 and 3.5 are available. Mono 2.1, 2.6, and 2.8 are also available via winetricks but I've never installed them. I've never had the need. Before I started using Orbiter three months ago the most sophisticated thing I'd ever done with wine is install the MS Office 2010 suite of applications for others. I'm good with OpenOffice.

I've plugged my guitar effects processor into a quality soundcard and 'jammed' with someone on the other side of town... The sound quality was bad but I was curious. In a lot of bands the musicians hate each other. I wanted to conceptualize an artists colony with networked bungalows for rehearsal. That was ten years ago. I don't have a network cert, I was just screwing around on my own just getting into programming. I did make some inquiries with some networking professionals but was assured I wouldn't get the sound quality I was looking for.

Do you think with a mono version installed via winetricks, wine is capable of supporting the OMP client at this time just to spectate? If so could we arrange a test? If not I'm thinking of deleting my 10 GB linux partition and giving the space to my 10 GB NTFS XP partition where my main Orbiter fully functional install is.

If you do think its doable, I will temporarily remove the XP install and reinstall Debian to the entire drive. I need the storage space to operate. With all the Windows software the wine prefix and winetricks cache quickly begins to swell. With just dotnet1.1 and 2.0 and mfc42/vcrun6 (for OrbiterSound) installed the prefix(.wine) is ~465 MB. Winetricks Cache is ~120 MB. My wine-git source directory compiled is ~675 MB. I still haven't installed vcrun2005, and vcrun2008 to run Orbiter, Some addons now require vcrun2010.

Its entirely up to you. I figure I'll benefit for now either way.
Thanks for your responses. I'm no longer completely in the dark with respect to OMP. I can't wait to try spectating from any platform.

It might be prudent to try OMP from XP first.

 

[Face]

I've plugged my guitar effects processor into a quality soundcard and 'jammed' with someone on the other side of town... The sound quality was bad but I was curious. In a lot of bands the musicians hate each other. I wanted to conceptualize an artists colony with networked bungalows for rehearsal. That was ten years ago. I don't have a network cert, I was just screwing around on my own just getting into programming. I did make some inquiries with some networking professionals but was assured I wouldn't get the sound quality I was looking for.

It is hard for me to follow your train of thought here. What does that have to do with OMP?

Could you please calm down a little? Enthusiasm is really great, but you have to focus a bit.

It might be prudent to try OMP from XP first.

Indeed. Especially because you are trying to demonstrate its capabilities to others.
OMP is still alpha and has bugs, so why additionally start in a "foreign" environment? Stay on established lanes...

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I've seen too many nice folks going ballistic because of OMP, that's why I'm always trying to tighten strings a bit on new interested people.

regards,
Face

 

[jimblah]

You don't seem harsh.

I often use metaphor and such to express ideas. Your just speaking your mind. Your avatar showed a guy with long hair. The 'story' had something to do with music and networking. I was attempting to make a connection. To me that has a lot to do with Orbiter.

My degrees of enthusiam I achieve naturally. I cherish each moment for they can be fleeting. As to my degrees of focus, which 'mode' would you prefer?

I really don't like people suggesting how I think unless they're some kind of authority on the matter. Is that consistent with Orbiter's values? Avertising isn't allowed here. Don't pretend to be something your not. What are you going to post next? "Take a chill pill jimblah"