Orbiter being sold at amazon :-(

[Havner]

• I have contacted amazon to remove the product page itself, and they have refused because there is currently no active listing.

I don't quite follow their logic. If there were a listing they'd remove the product page with a listing altogether but if there is no listing they won't remove just the product page?

Anyway nice to hear that it's somehow solved.

 

[HAL9001]

I don't quite follow their logic. If there were a listing they'd remove the product page with a listing altogether but if there is no listing they won't remove just the product page?

Anyway nice to hear that it's somehow solved.

just what I mean, too.
good that this has been solved now!

 

[JEL]

Here's a forum-thread from 2007 where some users discuss the same problem and the same company (butterfly-media): http://forums.scummvm.org/viewtopic.php?t=3443

And here's butterfly-media's own website: http://www.butterfly-media.co.uk/

This seems like organized criminal business, abusing something called "drop-shipping", which probably isn't about to stop anytime soon:

Drop shipping is a product delivery method in which the seller (retailer) accepts payment for an order, but the customer receives the product(s) directly from the manufacturer. In a drop shipping arrangement, the retailer acts as a middleman between the manufacturer and the customer. His profit in the transaction is the difference between the wholesale and retail price of the items sold.

Drop shipping is very beneficial to smaller retail shops, internet-only storefronts and those who primarily use catalogs for sales. Customers of these outlets don't always expect to walk out with their purchases, so a slight delay between ordering and drop shipping is not a drawback. A representative item may be displayed on the store's shelves or pictured in its catalog, but the actual product purchased may be sitting in a factory's warehouse 3000 miles away.

Google "drop-shipping" to learn more.




Now, while we're at it, are we criminals if we use Orbiter in videos that we put on youtube? I just came to think of this when I re-read the Orbiter-terms. They seem to indicate that even that kind of use is illegal? I hope I'm wrong ofcourse

 

[Urwumpe]

Drop shipping itself isn't really illegal, it is just a good cover up for illegal activities. Who is the manufacturer of the Orbiter DVDRs? I would say, in a slight assumption, Butterfly Media themselves. They thus don't act as middle-man, they simply steal software and sell it as their re-branded product.

Because if they would be real middle-man, they could just take money for giving you a download link to Orbiter. Which would be too obvious.

I never made use of drop shipping, I always rely on the retailed to be responsible as my contact person: Even if my local shop had to order something more extravagant from the United States of A, this shop remained responsible for warranty and delivery. In drop shipping, the manufacturer is responsible, you simply pay somebody a lot of money for organizing the contact with the manufacturer.

 

[Rtyh-12]

Hm. I think we should buy that list they mention on Butterfly Media's website and offer it for free on the internet. That would ruin that man's 'business'. I've read that page, and the money he gets from the games he sells is so good that he's given up his job. :lol:

Also, it's not illegal to create Orbiter videos. I guess this is the part that worries you!

* You will not use Orbiter or any parts of it to advertise, promote, present or sell any software or other product without explicit prior written permission by the licensor.

We don't promote other software or product, so it's fine.

 

[Havner]

I've read that page, and the money he gets from the games he sells is so good that he's given up his job. :lol:

Or that's what he wants you to believe in

 

[indonesianorbinaut]

why the orbiter is old in amazon?

 

[Rtyh-12]

That man wants money. He (ILLEGALLY) sells software that you can download at no cost.

 

[Grover]

coz some guy running a somewhat legal game distribution racket thought he would try and make 100% profit on ffreeware

personally i think he's a tool, either intentionally putting freeware on amazon, or unintentionally forgetting to check the products he gets from his "supplier"

edit: Ninja'd by Rtyh

 

[Keatah]

I would tend to guess if Orbiter-based videos were illegal and against the terms of Orbiter usage, then Martin would have said something by now. I'm sure he has enjoyed the videos over the years as much as we have.

 

[Urwumpe]

I would tend to guess if Orbiter-based videos were illegal and against the terms of Orbiter usage, then Martin would have said something by now. I'm sure he has enjoyed the videos over the years as much as we have.

They have a clearly visible promotion value of Orbiter.

 

[Linguofreak]

I would tend to guess if Orbiter-based videos were illegal and against the terms of Orbiter usage, then Martin would have said something by now. I'm sure he has enjoyed the videos over the years as much as we have.

Well, there always is the possibility that there's some clause in the Orbiter license that inadvertently makes such things illegal without Martin intending them to be, but in that case it still remains legal in practice, if not in theory, since Martin isn't suing anybody over the issue. (Plus, the polite thing is to go by Martin's wishes rather than the Orbiter license. If you found a loophole that let you do something nasty with Orbiter, and Martin asked you to stop, the fact that it was technically legal and he couldn't sue wouldn't make it any more right).

 

[Xyon]

Since Martin has commented positively on both my own videos and Tex's, that I've seen, I don't think it's an issue. However if I were to use Orbiter to advertise something else, with a view to making a profit, I think that's where the license comes in to play.

Making videos to show off your addons seems perfectly legitimate too, as they're not standalone products, and I've yet to see one being sold rather than freeware.

 

[Tommy]

I suspect that if you tried to SELL Orbiter videos and profit from that, Martin might object. In that case, the video would be the "other product".

I imagine the main point is whether Orbiter is being used to create or promote a product for profit, rather than free of charge.

 

[indonesianorbinaut]

I suspect that if you tried to SELL Orbiter videos and profit from that, Martin might object. In that case, the video would be the "other product".

I imagine the main point is whether Orbiter is being used to create or promote a product for profit, rather than free of charge.

I think so,Tommy

 

[JEL]

Thanks. Licenses can be a funny thing, with all the devils being in the details of all that lawyer-like language. Not that the orbiter-license is bad like that, but it's always good to be sure

 

[Ghostrider]

Drop shipping itself isn't really illegal, it is just a good cover up for illegal activities. Who is the manufacturer of the Orbiter DVDRs? I would say, in a slight assumption, Butterfly Media themselves. They thus don't act as middle-man, they simply steal software and sell it as their re-branded product.

This can be easily determined...

First of all we'll set up a FALSE IDENTITY to buy the CONTRABAND material, then we will perform FORENSIC ANALYSIS on the EVIDENCE and we'll use our wall-mounted multitouch display with tablet remote control to LINK UP the SUSPECT to the ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.

Once we have enough PROOF OF CULPABILITY, we will send a CRACK TEAM to PUNISH the PERP with EXTREME PREJUDICE and dispatch WAR DELTAGLIDER "AJAX" to BRING BACK HIS BODY!

/Caffeine

 

[Urwumpe]

First of all we'll set up a FALSE IDENTITY to buy the CONTRABAND material, then we will perform FORENSIC ANALYSIS on the EVIDENCE and we'll use our wall-mounted multitouch display with tablet remote control to LINK UP the SUSPECT to the ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.

We already know that the DVDs are mass-produced in a tiny DVD Fab in England.

 

[Ghostrider]

We already know that the DVDs are mass-produced in a tiny DVD Fab in England.

Yes, but a little NCIS:Low Earth Orbit cannot harm anyone...

 

[Urwumpe]

Yes, but a little NCIS:Low Earth Orbit cannot harm anyone...

Except the one who has to play the DiNozzo.