Pluto is an important planet.

T.Neo

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As it should be. We really don't need to call every little rock orbiting a gas giant a moon. Otherwise, the number will just keep increasing and increasing as we get better detection techniques. Jupiter and Saturn probably have hundreds each, or trillions each if you include the ring systems.

And what gives you the right to say what should and shouldn't be when it comes to moons?

We've already had objects booted out of 'planet-dom' because there would "be too many planets" if they were included. As much as some might believe, it is not strictly a scientific matter... it is really just a semantic one.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Pluto-hugger. I don't care much for Pluto or even other bodies similar to it, but there comes a point where you have to question definitions like this. The previous 'definition' didn't factor in the (as-yet undiscovered) fact that bodies like Pluto are common, and this definition is tailored exactly to exclude small, 'uninteresting' bodies as per the conditions present in our own solar system.
 
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Pablo49

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I agree on the classification, but think that Pluto should be grandfathered into the Family of Nine.
Is this for no other reason than emotion? It's not like Pluto was downgraded just to offend you. It's just semantics.
 

Keatah

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If you do so, we should not forget Ceres, the first ninth planet of the solar system. :lol:

What support can you offer for this argument?


Little more than the notion my favorite astronomy books would be incorrect. The problem is all the variable sizes, does an arbitrary cut-off of 1800 miles vs 1799 make a difference, for example? I can't wait till NH blasts through the Kuiper Belt and on to the Oort Cloud. That oughta put everyone's panties in a bunch for sure! All the varying sizes that are borderline planets. Yeeaahaaaw!

Let's just grandfather the damn thing in and be done with it I say.
 

Urwumpe

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Little more than the notion my favorite astronomy books would be incorrect. The problem is all the variable sizes, does an arbitrary cut-off of 1800 miles vs 1799 make a difference, for example?

Sure not, but that isn't the point. Pluto has not cleaned its neighborhood of other objects, and you should remember: When you did not clean your room, you have no chance to be rewarded for it.
 

Pablo49

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Let's just grandfather the damn thing in and be done with it I say.
It would be done if not for emotional and nostalgia fueled disagreements.

And again, you'd have to grandfather in Ceres, too, which was regarded as a planet for some time. Oh, and probably grandfather Earth as the center of the solar system, too. :facepalm:
 

fsci123

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Well Pluto is a small rocky little piece of ice with a planet-moon like object that at some point was attached to it. Earth has never had a planet-moon fly from it's surface. Nor has Jupiter. The main reason why people think Pluto is a planet today is because most of us were screamed at when we brought home failed science test that didn't have Pluto listed as a planet during kindergarten. Anyway I'm very happy with my 8 planets it's an even number...
 
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16800-think_consider_pluto_planet.jpg
This is a great rendering! Let us do a case-study for a moment. What sexes are the planets and what are they thinking?

Well Mommy planet is Saturn and she's a little surprised.
And Big-Daddy Jupiter is really angry and pissed off. He's also one of those big old types of a sort. And look at that red-spot snarl!

Mars is a tough little tyke that just learned how to fight he's saying you better not even come around here or I'm gonna really sock you one but good. And he's also adding on some more insults. Check out them eyes!

Baby boy Mercury is looking to see what's going on with bemusement and not really understanding it all.

Venus is just kinda looking on emotionless, or perhaps she's curious at the amusing form of behavior. Also she ain't thinking much other than that the whole deal is a temporary thing.

Uranus is like the noisy whippersnapper that's aware of everything and is hiding behind daddy with all the curiosity of a bouncy naive 10 year old. Sneaking around the corner. Uranus looks like the most pestery planet in town!

Earth is kinda like saying I told you so. And he's definitely a 14 yr old boy.

And we all know what Pluto's upset about. He looks like an 8 year old caught in the cookie jar.


The girl planets:
Saturn
Venus
Uranus

The boy planets:
Jupiter
Mars
Mercury
Earth
Pluto

Neptune is probably bi, or a he/she.. And perhaps like a daddy's best buddy type deal too.
 
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Wishbone

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:facepalm: Mythology 101 is in order...
 

Pyromaniac605

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greek-cosmos.jpg

The solar system is something like that, right?

Seriously, what purpose does making Pluto a planet again have? All it does is complicate things... :dry:
 

Keatah

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The director of the New Horizons mission insists Pluto is a genuine planet. It has an atmosphere, seasons, moons, it is round and so on and so forth. He cites those reasons and others in some big talk he gave in the beginning of the year.

Between that and my old astronomy books, the IAU can go take a hike!
 

Pyromaniac605

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(1) A "planet" is a celestial body that: (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.

(2) A "dwarf planet" is a celestial body that: (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.
It's quite clear that it's a dwarf planet and not a full fledged planet, there is no basis to change it, nostalgia shouldn't get in the way of progress, people! :dry:
 

Pablo49

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Between that and my old astronomy books, the IAU can go take a hike!

Note the bold word. I have some Encyclopedia from the turn of the century. I'm sure I could dig in there and find some interesting facts that are no longer true, or have changed in some way in the course of a hundred years. Should I still trust those books just because I have them? Or should I keep up-to-date with today?

I can hardly believe it's nearly 60 posts later and this thread is still about personal feelings and nostalgia. Despite what it's called, Pluto is still Pluto. We just want to better define how we organize our solar system.
 

Pyromaniac605

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Agreed. But some people seem to think that Pluto is being disrespected by being downgraded to dwarf planet.

This is a five year old argument people, get over it already.
 

orb

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But some people seem to think that Pluto is being disrespected by being downgraded to dwarf planet.
It's like disrespect to Earth by not being called a "giant" planet, or by not being in the center of the universe nor even in the center of anything. :p

What's so special about being a planet? It might be special (to people) when there were no known extraterrestrial planets but only 9 "planets" our system had, but now it's nothing. Do those bodies even "care" how they are being called? Like 134340 Pluto or just Pluto. A century ago there were 8 planets in Solar system. Pluto wasn't even known then. Wasn't it a greater "disrespect" to it than it is now?
 

T.Neo

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It's quite clear that it's a dwarf planet and not a full fledged planet

What is 'quite clear' about it? That is described a certain way in a classification meant to exclude it?

I am really tired about the whole "is this a planet" debate. You know what, I don't care if anything is a "planet". A semantic classification doesn't change the importance or scientific relevance of a body. It ultimately does not matter.
 

RisingFury

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The director of the New Horizons mission insists Pluto is a genuine planet. It has an atmosphere, seasons, moons, it is round and so on and so forth. He cites those reasons and others in some big talk he gave in the beginning of the year.

So? Titan has an atmosphere too. Not sure about seasons, but it does have weather. It's also rounded by its own gravity and has over twice the mean radius as Pluto does. Nope, still not a planet.

Due to all the volcanic activity, Jupiter's Io has an atmosphere. Though it is about 1000 times thinner then that of Pluto. Io is also larger then Pluto.

Neptune's Triton also has an atmosphere, thicker then Pluto. We also know it has high altitude winds. Triton is also larger then Pluto.

Pluto is a wimp.

Keatah said:
Between that and my old astronomy books, the IAU can go take a hike!

You're citing old astronomy books as a reference? :lol::lol::lol:
 
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insanity

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The whole point of science is that we create better models, more rigid definitions, and hopefully move forward our knowledge base. The scientific community decided that the term planet should meet certain criteria, so that when the term was used people would have a better idea of what it meant.

Here's another way to look at it. Take any piece of rock on Earth, say [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite"]this one[/ame].

Not terribly long ago, granite was just a different looking rock. The scientific process created a more through taxonomy so that we could talk about a very specific kind of rock and know what it meant.

Things like how the rock was formed (in this case, it was igneous), what kinds of things made it up (in this case, it is predominately feldspars with 20% quartz by volume) and where it forms (this specific rock is intrusive). Further, we have things like relative toughness, crystal formation, and density to help us narrow down the properties of a very specific kind of rock.

The same with celestial bodies. We have terrestrial planets, planets called gas giants, plantoids (like Pluto), asteroids, comets, moons, all sorts of stars, galaxies, and well, lots of other fun stuff. The more we learn about the outside universe, the better we can make our taxonomical classifications for these items. It in no way diminishes an object to have a more specific definition. Actually, it is just the opposite. It makes that object more unique because we have put it in a smaller class.

Science has to be immune from nostalgia over its definitions.
 

T.Neo

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Pluto is a wimp.

Jupiter-and-Earth.png


"Is a wimp" is not a very scientific definition. :dry:

You obviously do as you keep posting in a thread about it.

Are you complaining about my affront to the holy law of the IAU? :lol:
 
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