Science Pollution in China

[Ark]

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

Some pictures of how bad the pollution problem in China really is. There is absolutely nothing the US, and Europe for that matter, that can compare to this. It's like something out of a dystopian video game.

There's more on the site, here are the highlights:

^^^Raw sewage being dumped into the river, less than 1,000 meters downstream is where the water department of Danyang City gets its water from. Unbelievable.

 

[Andy44]

Obviously that's just American photoshop propaganda. Everyone knows that communists always take care of the environment.

 

[Ark]

If anything, their push to whore out their cheap labor and manufacturing to the rest of the world is more capitalistic in nature than communistic. A very small and select class of people is getting very rich off this kind of misery. China hardly fits the definition of communism anymore.

CINO - Communist In Name Only.

 

[SiberianTiger]

A good economic collapse helps improving environment greatly.

 

[JamesG]

The price of industrialism. No matter where or when. Victorian London or 19th century New England were likewise in their day.

 

[T.Neo]

Everyone knows that communists always take care of the environment.

LOL.

Seriously, pollution is pretty common everywhere- even in SA, plastic shopping bags are nicknamed the "Roses of Soweto"...

The price of industrialism.

Riiight...

Shall I start living in a mud hut and wearing an animal skin?

 

[Sky Captain]

This is what you get when environment protection laws are next to nonexistent and industrial output is everything

 

[Rocketman527]

The price of industrialism. No matter where or when. Victorian London or 19th century New England were likewise in their day.

That's 19th century New England. Now we know better (I wish) than to dump raw sewage into rivers and toss our trash anywhere we feel like.

And no, sodomizing our planet does not go hand in hand with a modern industrialized society.

 

[fredericva]

I see no reason why industries can not be built from the ground up with protecting the environment in mind. It just requires more creativity and ingenuity, something which I've noticed the Chinese do not have a lot of.

A friend of mine recommended a good book on the very topic to me a while ago, though I've forgotten its title. I'll ask him again tomorrow.

Also, I'm surprised there hasn't been an Avatar reference in this thread yet. The movie has already been mentioned in far less relevant topics :lol:

 

[Ark]

I see no reason why industries can not be built from the ground up with protecting the environment in mind. It just requires more creativity and ingenuity, something which I've noticed the Chinese do not have a lot of.

Money. Those with the money can afford to insulate themselves from the horrors wrought by their industry, so they see no reason to sacrifice profits so their workers don't have to get cancer and die.

 

[Andy44]

sodomizing our planet

POIDH

"pics or it didn't happen"

Such a stunt would be most impressive.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Dirty industries have got to be somewhere. 150 years ago it was England, now they are all in China and the 1st world still enjoys what they produce. I bet the next turn will be 'sodomizing' Africa and only next will come the Moon.

 

[jedidia]

And no, sodomizing our planet does not go hand in hand with a modern industrialized society.

No, but looking at history it seems to be pretty much a part of BUILDING one. Once it's built, people actually start to care, because wealth increases.

We cannot walk a fine line on this and say we just did it back then because we didn't know any better. People were not stupid 300 years ago. We did it because of greed, a greed that has eventually (after some social reforms) lead us to the wealth that made us able to care about other things. An industrializing society doesn't have it yet. An industrialized one does. Hence, it seems that industrialisation always goes hand in hand with ruthless greed that doesn't care neither about society nor about people, that leads, if handled right in the late stages, to prosperity for the whole population, which in turn brings huge advancements in science, ethics, education and social areas (at least on the surface... below that, greed still rules in the west. Maybe we'll overcome that one day, maybe not).

Based on these advances we are judging china, forgetting HOW we got to these advances, which was exactly the same way they are doing it now. That leaves room for hope that one day they will arrive at the same stage.

 

[T.Neo]

I bet the next turn will be 'sodomizing' Africa

Oh no... not Africa...

I think there is major interest in Africa from China. With many natural resources and an undereducated population that could easily be made into a cheap workforce, I can definitely see a "second colonisation" of sorts of African countries by China.

Oh, a Africa has been sodomised already, by both European colonists and local warlords/dictators/morons. And it's still happening right now.

only next will come the Moon.

No-one cares about the Moon. There is no local life and the environment is so hostile that toxic contamination is a minor problem.

 

[fredericva]

No, but looking at history it seems to be pretty much a part of BUILDING one. Once it's built, people actually start to care, because wealth increases.

Again, I see no reason why it should be. Why not invest in the ecology from the start, if you know you'll end up doing it eventually? It might even lead to fewer costs down the road.

We cannot walk a fine line on this and say we just did it back then because we didn't know any better. People were not stupid 300 years ago. We did it because of greed, a greed that has eventually (after some social reforms) lead us to the wealth that made us able to care about other things. An industrializing society doesn't have it yet. An industrialized one does. Hence, it seems that industrialisation always goes hand in hand with ruthless greed that doesn't care neither about society nor about people, that leads, if handled right in the late stages, to prosperity for the whole population, which in turn brings huge advancements in science, ethics, education and social areas (at least on the surface... below that, greed still rules in the west. Maybe we'll overcome that one day, maybe not).

We weren't stupid, but there was a lot we didn't know either. Remember, smoking wasn't bad for you until the fifties

I'm trying to make excuses here. A lot more is known now about the environment, and about ways to prevent destroying it than when the west was industrializing.

It seems China doesn't care, because long-term thinking appears to be out of fashion these days. :dry:

Based on these advances we are judging china, forgetting HOW we got to these advances, which was exactly the same way they are doing it now. That leaves room for hope that one day they will arrive at the same stage.

Let's hope it will not be too late by then.

 

[Ark]

Dirty industries have got to be somewhere. 150 years ago it was England, now they are all in China and the 1st world still enjoys what they produce. I bet the next turn will be 'sodomizing' Africa and only next will come the Moon.

I think once China has developed to the point of being a superpower, much like the US, they'll start looking for someplace to export the worst of the industry and accompanying pollution. Africa is the world's logical next choice for a large pool of easily controlled labor.

Unfortunately for them.

 

[jedidia]

Again, I see no reason why it should be. Why not invest in the ecology from the start, if you know you'll end up doing it eventually? It might even lead to fewer costs down the road.

I don't say it doesn't sound like like a good idea. I don't see it happening majorly because of human nature, but it might be an interesting study how one can set up a rapid industrialization while caring about all the "nitpicking" and not choke the developement at the start.

It seems China doesn't care, because long-term thinking appears to be out of fashion these days. :dry:

I think it never really was...

Let's hope it will not be too late by then.

Yes, that's the big question here...

I think there is major interest in Africa from China. With many natural resources and an undereducated population that could easily be made into a cheap workforce

It's not really like we stopped doing that after leaving the colonies...
But if China has anything, then it's cheap workforce. I think they won't need too many africans for that.

 

[fredericva]

I don't say it doesn't sound like like a good idea. I don't see it happening majorly because of human nature, but it might be an interesting study how one can set up a rapid industrialization while caring about all the "nitpicking" and not choke the developement at the start

Try this book:
http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm

It's about developing an industry where waste products are not seen as waste, but as resources for further processing, up to the point where everything remotely useful has been turned into sellable (and recyclable) products. The ideas in that book have already been tested, and I seem to recall it even paid back their initial investments in a few years' time.

Granted, it's still mostly about transforming an existing industry.

 

[hnsptr]

Ah. The yellow flood. Those evil communists once again. It is always evil communists if it is not islamists these days, isn't it? There is always a threat from the east. If it is not the middle east, it is the far east And most importantly it is always the rest.

China is a country in progress economically and politically, and it has a respectable and interesting culture. The environmental protection in China is going to change for years already. And as usual it takes some time until the western media and people do recognize it.

Linfen once was the most dirtiest city in China. Within 4 years the ranking of Linfen changed from 113 to 46. It is not clean yet. But there are significant changes. Hundreds of smokestacks were destroyed. And China is going to do the biggest reforestation in human history: http://www.ecosmagazine.com/?paper=EC127p13

China has to learn. Just like the white man had and still has to learn a lot.

 

[jedidia]

There is always a threat from the east.

When seen from the U.S., wouldn't china be closer when you go west?