Discussion Proposal New version of Orbiter

Linguofreak

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Orbiter is so out of date. Why not rip the physics/formulas/equations physics the doc came up with rip em out and put them in a game engine like unity.

Well, for one thing, all of Orbiter is C++, and IIRC Unity's API is in C#, so integrating the two is likely not child's play to do. [/understatement]

The engine has everything you need for modern graphics, multiplayer, collision and its multiplatform for you Linux guys. And you can make it moddable which is why KSP was so successful. Think about it. Rip the kerbals out of ksp replace them with modern astronaut meshes and animations throw in the deltaglider put in the docs physics and what do you have?

If you want something like that built on Unity, it'll probably be simpler to start from KSP + RSS + Principia than with Orbiter.

you have a new bad ass looking orbiter with a active modding community. The old addons on the hanger (or what used to be the hanger) will sit there for orbiter 2016 only. I would stop wasting time or worrying about "backwards compatibility". New orbiter, new addons simple!

If you don't care about back compatibly with existing Orbiter, then adding to the capabilities of modded KSP, or starting a new project from scratch, is probably a better use if effort.

If you do care about back compatibility, then trying to port everything to Unity is impractical.
 
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PhantomCruiser

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I'd be willing to bet folding money that the first 100 people to view, practice, play and otherwise fart around with Kerbal Space Program are here on this forum.
I say this with a pretty decent amount of conviction, given that the creator of KSP is also a member of this forum.

That said, KSP has introduced a great many people into the world of spaceflight and orbital mechanics. Several graphics mods later, KSP looks really good, less cartoony and can mimic the looks of actual hardware. I think physics-wise, Orbiter has it beat.

I've not been on the Kerbal forums lately (like... years) because they soured me a bit. Almost like a brony convention soured.

Anyway. To each their own.
 

Face

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Why suggest the most ill-suited engine possible though? Well, apart from LibGDX or JMonkey, possibly...
Hey! Reminds me that you already did something with Unity for Orbiter, didn't you? I remember some C#/C++ interop-code with your username attached :p .
 

jedidia

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Hey! Reminds me that you already did something with Unity for Orbiter, didn't you? I remember some C#/C++ interop-code with your username attached :p .
Ah no, you're probably recalling the Irrlicht "integration". Specifically rendering irrlicht inside an orbiter dialogue window. And it was you who actually made it work, because that was my first C++ project and I couldn't tell a pointer from my rear end... :cheers:
 

TheShuttleExperience

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So what are you saying?
That software is not necessarily bad only because it is "old". The GPCs of the Space Shuttle run for decades, on old hardware, and supported/controlled the most elaborate manned system ever designed (for now) quite well.

Dont modernize orbiter just let it fade away?
Orbiter has been modernized a few times. You are of course free to do it on your own, or maybe find a group of developers willing to sacrifice their free time/life time if you have the proper amount of money to pay for it 🤩 👍

Besides, Orbiter is the most elaborate space flight simulator for free and even on the market especially in terms of orbital mechanics but also the visual appearance of the Earth and other planets/celestial bodies. Compared to Orbiter even the software that NASA and ESA use for presentations or virtual demonstrations somehow look like crap. And we get it all for free :hailprobe:
This is what i love about these forums. Somebody comes out and talks about an idea and all they get is ridicule.
It depends on the idea ;)
 

Urwumpe

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In my experience, it depends mostly on the attitude... Even bad ideas don't usually get flamed when the proponents don't behave like they own the place.

Exactly that is what I mean. You have to sell your idea to the rest of the community.

And yeah, we have a lot of stuff in Orbiter, that I don't need to like. But together with those things, also many great ideas became realized.
 

clipper

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Compared to Orbiter even the software that NASA and ESA use for presentations or virtual demonstrations somehow look like crap.
to be honest, that's not a particularly high bar :LOL:

But I agree with the sentiment of course, and O2016 + D3D9 knocks many AAA games out of the park when it comes to planetary visuals from outer space.
 

Abloheet

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@jameswebb. Have you taken a good hard look at whatever is happening on the forum, and orbiter development in general, nowadays?

Or did you directly jump to the conclusion that Orbiter is dead and fading away?

Good things take time. Orbiter is keeping up with the times. In its own way.

It will keep getting better and better, in a stable and sustainable way.

Why? Because we will be doing so. You are welcome to join us
 
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jameswebb

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right on! You would think I learned something on here since 2008
 

Urwumpe

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looks like this will drag on forever

Well, its a matter of priorities.

Of course, he could pay somebody to do the C++ programming.

My price is of course a fixed one as managed service, but weirdly high enough to start a new life in South America under a new identity. Weird.
 

Face

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My price is of course a fixed one as managed service, but weirdly high enough to start a new life in South America under a new identity. Weird.
Won't help you. We will find you everywhere, no matter the identity. ;)
 

Linguofreak

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he actually said

he can't code

twice

NukeET also said he can't code. The point is that when you waltz up to an open source project and all but demand that the devs do things your way, "the code is here" is the polite way of telling you to put up or shut up.

Face likely guessed that the OP couldn't code before he said "the code is here". If the OP could code, he'd either know that what he was asking for was difficult, or he'd be submitting an equally tactless pull request on github (OK, "equally tactless" is a bit harsh: "do things my way" will never win awards for tact, but it's much less tactless if you've already done the legwork and are just asking for it to be incorporated into the project).
 

Face

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Face likely guessed that the OP couldn't code before he said "the code is here". If the OP could code, he'd either know that what he was asking for was difficult, or he'd be submitting an equally tactless pull request on github (OK, "equally tactless" is a bit harsh: "do things my way" will never win awards for tact, but it's much less tactless if you've already done the legwork and are just asking for it to be incorporated into the project).
I maybe had the suspicion that it is so, but it could very well have been an enthusiastic developer that feels like a council or somesuch dictates what direction the project should go. I thought I'd encourage him to go ahead and simply do. Little more action, little less conversation, or so. When he answered that he can't code, only model, but hinted that I should do it, I replied that I personally find it difficult to do with my limited knowledge, and therefore would take months to implement his proposal, which I have no time for.

I hope this clarifies my statements.

On the subject of pull request: even if it were a "tactless" PR, it would contain code, and you can better argue about code than about prose. I would very welcome any PR that goes along a proposal. Well, as long as it is working code, of course (lest anybody gets the idea to simply submit a dreams.txt).
 

Urwumpe

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(OK, "equally tactless" is a bit harsh: "do things my way" will never win awards for tact, but it's much less tactless if you've already done the legwork and are just asking for it to be incorporated into the project).

I wouldn't consider a PR tactless. Maybe annoying, if somebody sends you update after update for his PR and you barely have time to review it. But generally, a PR is a great opportunity to communicate. If you are maintainer, you can specify what you expect of the code, testers can give feedback about the improvements, etc. If people want to collaborate, the PR would be the last good chance to start with it. Sure, you can communicate earlier about what you plan. But nobody hates you for doing in the latest reasonable moment.

But generally, PRs are not more tactless than for example a draft for legislation. And like those, a PR rarely leaves "parliament" in the shape that it entered it. ;)
 
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