News Red Dragon of SpaceX Canceled?

[perseus]

Everything indicates that the famous company of Elon Musk has canceled the development of the Martian capsule Red Dragon. SpaceX announced last year its desire to send a Red Dragon to Mars in 2018 by the heavy rocket Falcon Heavy, a very optimistic date that was soon delayed to 2020. However, thanks to the collaboration with NASA - which was responsible for Scientific instruments and communications - we have recently learned officially that this date was also in question. In view of this information logically it was thought that the mission would take place in the next window of release to the planet Mars, that is, in 2022. But it seems that will not be so, because SpaceX has not delayed the project, but has directly canceled it .



Rumors of the cancellation of the Red Dragon have been going around for several months, but now they have gained momentum and many independent sources seem to corroborate it. The reason for the abandonment of the project is a direct consequence of another relevant cancellation: SpaceX has canceled the powered landing system of the new Dragon 2 manned ship. And, since the Red Dragon is a version of unmanned Dragon 2 adapted to Mars , Without the propelled landing it is not possible to land a capsule on Mars.

 

[BrianJ]

Also, the Crew Dragon will not be making a propulsive landing on Earth.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/07/19/propulsive-landings-nixed-from-spacexs-dragon-spaceship/

Rats - I was looking forward to that.

 

[Unstung]

Some sources:
http://spacenews.com/spacex-drops-plans-for-powered-dragon-landings/
https://arstechnica.com/science/201...have-pulled-the-plug-on-its-red-dragon-plans/

Musk certainly isn't ruling out future landings on Mars. The fact that SpaceX's crewed Dragon will only land on water for the foreseeable future will impact Dragon's reusability. This gives Boeing's Starliner an advantage.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Damn. The ability to propulsively land would have opened nearly every body in the solar system open to exploration. Let's hope that is just shelved and not completely forgotten.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

I think ITS has rendered the Red Dragon largely irrelevant.

 

[Col_Klonk]

I say we just do not have the technology at this point to get humans safely around space.
Musk's enthusiasm looks like it's been curtailed a bit down to reality by Nasa, as they themselves are under heavy scrutiny, and settling for realistic goals will take the heat off.

 

[Frilock]

I say we just do not have the technology at this point to get humans safely around space.

Oh we have the technology. We just don't have the money/desire to spend the money. For the record, you can put me in the camp of not wanting to spend the money.

 

[Col_Klonk]

Oh we have the technology.

We would love to see it.. after all there's been a lot of money spent on this.

And to cancel the project.. because of money.. yeah right :hello:

 

[Pipcard]

Also, the Crew Dragon will not be making a propulsive landing on Earth.

https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/07/19/propulsive-landings-nixed-from-spacexs-dragon-spaceship/

Rats - I was looking forward to that.

The article claims that "Musk did not elaborate on the new concept for landing on Mars," but Musk was referring to the ITS's method of re-entering on its side, then pitching over to land.

edit: He's implying that there's going to be an experimental mini-ITS in the place of Red Dragon.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

I think ITS has rendered the Red Dragon largely irrelevant.

They were a lot closer to getting a Dragon to propulsively land (the hardware mostly exists, what doesn't is within technological reach). Maybe not for Mars, but I think a soft landing capability between the Earth and the moon had some value, both from a performance standpoint and from an experience standpoint relevant to ITS.

I know they are already making tanks for ITS, but I don't see that getting to the pad any time soon, and they are going to have to go through the process of some painful and expensive educational RUDs (which are going to be much bigger and much more expensive).

I really think Elon is a Martian who is really desperate to get home. No other explanation makes sense.

 

[RGClark]

The article claims that "Musk did not elaborate on the new concept for landing on Mars," but Musk was referring to the ITS's method of re-entering on its side, then pitching over to land.

edit: He's implying that there's going to be an experimental mini-ITS in the place of Red Dragon.

In the speech last year introducing the ITS he suggested its upper stage could be ready by 2020, same time frame as Red Dragon.

Then that upper stage could act as the booster for the mini-ITS. Giving it then its own smaller upper stage, the mini-ITS could be a manned Mars transport for a smaller, exploratory mission with professional astronauts instead of 100 colonists.

Bob Clark

 

[perseus]

SpaceX's public speech was that they were still using the plan to use the propelled landing, but in subsequent missions. However, NASA imposed its judgment and it has become clear that this system will not be used in any of the missions to the ISS contracted under the CCP (Crew Commercial Program) program.

Despite everything, it seemed that SpaceX was going ahead with this system in order to apply it to its own missions in the distant future. But continued delays with the development of Boeing's Dragon 2 and CST-100 Starliner have caused NASA to have given a serious touch to both companies.

The two companies will not be able to meet the initial goal of having the ships ready for this year and now we will have to wait until 2018.

Officially, because we already talk about 2019 as the most probable date of the first manned flight (on paper the first Manned mission of the Dragon 2, the SpX-DM2, must take place in June 2018). Each year that passes without these ships are flying is another year that NASA must pay Russia an enormous amount of money for sending their astronauts to the ISS, something unacceptable from the political point of view.

 

[C3PO]

I'm not convinced that this 'cancellation' isn't a part of negotiation tactic.

http://spacenews.com/spacex-drops-plans-for-powered-dragon-landings/

“It would have taken a tremendous amount of effort to qualify that for safety, particularly for crew transport,”

Pointing out the cost of certification as the main issue, doesn't sound like he has lost confidence in the technology.

 

[N_Molson]

Well, that development doesn't really surprises me. Musk speaks a lot, does much less.

Also maybe he lost more money than he expected...

 

[francisdrake]

I guess an underlying reason was to remove the landing struts poking out of the heat shield. NASA is probably sceptical about weak points in the heat shield.

Musk mentioned that the Dragon could theoretically still land onshore 'in a soft spot', as the landing legs have been deleted. I wonder if the Dragon could still land in a Soyus-style, using the SuperDraco engines for the final braking before impact, then just rolling over. But probably this car-crash landing style would terminate the re-usability of the Dragon capsule.

 

[C3PO]

I guess an underlying reason was to remove the landing struts poking out of the heat shield. NASA is probably sceptical about weak points in the heat shield.

SpaceX could use fold-around legs or jettison a non-reusable shield and still reuse the capsule. It would be better than dunking it in seawater. I'm fairly sure that reusable shields and saltwater don't mix well.

Reusable heat shields make sense on a space-plane/lifting-body, but on a capsule the expendable shield makes more sense economically. Especially if the reusable shield compromises the re-usability of the whole system.

This story sounds a bit odd to me. SpaceX went directly from "We can do anything" to "Dog ate my homework". :hmm:

 

[Andy44]

Musk speaks a lot, does much less.

Unlike, say, NASA's promised shuttle flights every two weeks with giant space station or Roscosmos' endless plethora of new programs that go nowhere...

I guess an underlying reason was to remove the landing struts poking out of the heat shield. NASA is probably sceptical about weak points in the heat shield.

They seemed okay with landing gear doors and ET umbilical doors, etc.

Not to mention the hatch through the heat shield of the Gemini capsules designed for the canceled MOL program.

On a side note, I dislike the name "Red Dragon". It's the name of a horrible serial killer in one of the Hannibal Lecter films...