Russian Lunar Program 1975

[santy86]

Hi Nick,

Finally i found time to post something. Very nice project, i hope it will be ready soon.

Continue this way dude

 

[NickD]

I'm continuing to work, but i have a very little free time, so the progress is very slow. This is the new pictures of the Lunar Living-Laboratory Module.
The model is 100 percent ready, but i'll appreciate some help with texturing. I need at least UV-maps to be created, but some help from skilled texturer will make the model more realistic, if i try to texture it by myself.
The same applies to the LEK spacecraft, shown in posts before.

So any help will be welcome!

Best regards!
Nick

 

[NickD]

The LZhM is ready, here are some screenshots from finished version:

 

[Urwumpe]

Impressive!

 

[T.Neo]

Impressive!

I agree with Urwumpe. Those models are :speakcool:.

How big will they be poly-wise?

 

[NickD]

About 84000 triangles.
Actually the rivets are responsible at least for the half of this number.
Some people said, that rivets are not used in spacecraft plating, so i think about their removal, despite of their cool looking.
What do you think?

 

[Urwumpe]

In reality we use less "rivets" to keep meteorite protection panels in place. Also you would in Russian Spaceflight likely have the module covered in thermal insulation blankets.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081202.html

I think 84,000 is a too high price for the rivets (in my opinion you should do such things with bump maps, which Orbiter does not yet support).

How would the module look like, if you make the outside of the pressure vessel sections look like the surface of contemporary Russian spaceflight modules?

Without thermal blankets, they look pretty similar to your module:

But with them:

Maybe the module would even look better if you remove the rivets and place segmented meteorite shields over thermal blankets around the pressure vessel. I mean... not visible rivets, just large EVA compatible bolts and bigger gaps between the plates. Also the windows and other details would get more depth then.

 

[NickD]

Yes, You're right about rivets - i will remove them, and place the meteor shields instead. About thermal blanets - i though the soviets didn't use them in early 70's, see the pictures of early Soyuz in Leicester:

Too bad i can't find Salyut space station photos with good quality. I suppose lunar modules must look like similar to the early Salyut hulls.

 

[Urwumpe]

That they did not use blankets on the early soyuz models is a misconception, based on Mock-ups like this. All Soyuz spacecraft used almost the same thermal blankets in history.

You can see that this mock-up is just naked by some small details: Hatches and non-propulsive vents stand out further than needed. Once the spacecraft is covered with Blankets, these details are almost flush.

See here:

 

[NickD]

A, i understand now. Thanks! I'll take it in mind!

 

[Urwumpe]

Just as little trivia, I looked into my Soyuz book about when this special OM flew:

It was the OM of Soyuz 22, 15 September 1976, roughly during the time frame of your add-on. The ASTP Soyuz craft (Soyuz 19), also has thermal blankets and flew in 15 July 1975.

 

[NickD]

Thanks! This helps a lot!
In this case, i will change texture into "blanket" type, but will add meteoroid shields on the cylinders. Something like Salyut station:

Is this will be ok this way?

Meanwhile, i've removed the rivets and triangles fall to 34000. size of the mesh file is lower than 3 MB.

 

[Urwumpe]

Thanks! This helps a lot!
In this case, i will change texture into "blanket" type, but will add meteoroid shields on the cylinders. Something like Salyut station:

Is this will be ok this way?

Yeah, sounds realistic that they planned the LZhM around the experiences of their space stations. The little information about it from astronautix does at least not suggest the opposite.

One optimization I could expect is, that they used less thermal blankets and meteorite shields around the lower side of the habitat lobes, simply because after landing there is only secondary impact risk for these regions and they are protected by the descent propulsion module during coast to the moon.

On the other hand, if they plan to stay on the moon for 1 year, you can expect light EVA aids all over the lab hull, so small damages can be fixed. Some EVA hand rails at "useful" places (I don't know how such a position would be optimized, I suspect by trail and error) could be expected, but not much more. Which makes it even more similar to Salyut. :lol:

A possible EVA aid could be a light ladder folded and stowed between the primary hull lobes, but I suspect weight considerations and the low risk for fixable damages would optimize such a ladder away.

 

[NickD]

Many thanks, Urwumpe!
You are perfectly right and i will change the model this way. I'm working already, so soon i will post the results! The "freed" polygons give me some room to add additional detail


-----Post Added-----


Ok, here the new version:

Some little detail will be added, plus instrumental boxes under the legs trusses.

I cant imagine how to do the stairs to access the upper outer part of the module. I can make movable stairs, that manually can be moved and attached to the all of the legs, but it will not be possible for astronaut in suit to climb higher i suppose, so it looks like will be useless?

 

[NickD]

New updated model:

The reworked hatch close view:

I'm still want to redesign blankets, but i'm not satisfied with the results, so i will try again.

 

[NickD]

This is the redesigned (again) version of the living module:

I've asked with the Russian spacecraft specialists about the LZhM and LEK. They answer me about thermal blankets, used in Russian spacecraft. It seems that blankets have many layers. The inner layers are electro-vacuum thermal insulation (EVTI) itself, the outer layer is for protection of the EVTI. The unprotected EVTI is shiny like golden or silver foil. The Americans didn't protect descent stage insulation of their lander, because of weight reasons and low risk of insulation damage during flight, this is the reason it looks like golden foil. The ascent stage insulation is fiberglass protected, and looks gray. The Russians planned to protect insulation on landing stage, not only the living compartment.

 

[Urwumpe]

I've asked with the Russian spacecraft specialists about the LZhM and LEK. They answer me about thermal blankets, used in Russian spacecraft. It seems that blankets have many layers. The inner layers are electro-vacuum thermal insulation (EVTI) itself, the outer layer is for protection of the EVTI. The unprotected EVTI is shiny like golden or silver foil. The Americans didn't protect descent stage insulation of their lander, because of weight reasons and low risk of insulation damage during flight, this is the reason it looks like golden foil. The ascent stage insulation is fiberglass protected, and looks gray. The Russians planned to protect insulation on landing stage, not only the living compartment.

Yes, makes sense. As suggestion for improving the textures: What about adding visible seams between the blankets? would give them a bit more depth and a more blanket like shape.

 

[NickD]

You are totally right, but it was not easy task.
This is the result, i hope it is better...

 

[Urwumpe]

Weee, now it looks pretty real already. :speakcool:

The only minor nitpick I can see, is the blankets seams not following the details - for example windows, hatches and lights directly stick inside the blankets, in reality, you would have the seams following and surrounding the details. But it is already impressive like it is now, I think only maniacs can complain about this.

 

[NickD]

You're right of course, but i'm not THAT good with the texturing