Hardware Seeking input on the Saitek X52 Pro

[blixel]

I have a Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X Flight Stick. I got it over a year ago from Amazon. (At the time, the price was just $33.95) I've always felt like it was a great joystick/throttle unit for the money.

I had a chance to use a Saitek X52 Pro, and I have to say, I am not impressed - at all. With so many people praising the Saitek, I was really surprised by how much I disliked it. I'm posting this here to ask a few questions about my experience. I want to find out if it's just a matter of personal taste, or if there's some way to change the "feel" of the Saitek to make it not suck so much.

First is the throttle portion. It has two detents that provide tactile feedback at 25% and 75% throttle. The T-Flight Hotas has 1 detent at 50%.

The 1 and only complaint I've ever had with my T-Flight Hotas is that detent. When you reach that part in the throttle up/down, it makes the throttle stick too much. It requires quite a bit of physical force (relatively speaking) to get the throttle to slide through that 50% point.

It tends to "pop" out of place quickly ... so rather than going smoothly from 50% to 55%, (or 50% down to 45%), the extra force you have to apply causes it to pop non-smoothly around that 50% point. Also, if you don't have the joystick firmly in place, that sticking point at 50% will cause the entire joystick to slide on your desk. You'll have to hold it down with one hand while getting out of that 50% point.

Back to the Saitek ... it has 2 of these sticking points, and they are far more obnoxious than the T-Flight Hotas. The amount of force required to push the throttle past the 75% point feels all wrong in my opinion.

There is a tension knob on the left that allows you to change the resistance of the throttle, but it has no effect on these detent positions.

So question 1 - is there a way to reduce (or even eliminate) the amount of extra pressure that is needed to move the throttle past these positions. If not, then this 1 thing is a deal breaker in my opinion. I don't like this aspect of my T-Flight Hotas, but it only has 1 of these positions, and it's not as ridiculous as the Saitek.

Next is the joystick portion. When banking left/right, or pitching up down, the motion is anything but smooth. The spring makes the joystick feel like it's popping left, and then popping back to center when you release pressure. I'm not a real pilot, but I tend to think that flying should be smooth and fluid, not jerky.

When you bank the Saitek joystick, you can feel the metal parts moving around. It creates a tactile sensation that is very displeasing. (My opinion.)

Also, when banking left/right, you only get a few degrees of bank before reaching the resistance point of the joystick. To get more bank, you have to apply quite a bit more pressure ... and again, it tends to feel like it "pops" past that point, and then "pops" back to the center position.

The joystick portion of my T-Flight Hotas is much, much smoother. With my T-Flight Hotas, I tend to rest my hand on the base of the unit and just fly by applying a bit of pressure to the joystick with my thumb and pointer finger.

So question 2 - is there a way to smooth out the feeling of the Saitek joystick?

For the people that have had this joystick, and have apparently liked it well enough to keep it, what's the secret? I'm very underwhelmed by this relatively expensive piece of hardware.

 

[Cras]

I have the Saitek X52Pro.

To your first question, the throttle sticking points, this has bothered me from day one (and the fact that it is built to be only left handed, and that annoyed me a bit, but I have seen gotten used to it. I would have just rather the ability to flip it so it can naturally be manipulated with my right hand). In short, you are stuck with it. Rarely in FSX do I have the throttles set to 100 percent or are bouncing up and down the upper detent, the lower detent gets in the way with more realistic add-ons that simulate proper taxi thrust. Some planes however require a use of throttle around that upper sticky point range, and it does get annoying. No way to deal with this afaik, other than use the stick and it wears down.

For the 2nd, when I got mine new, it was rather pleasant. But it does wear down. Now, I can feel more and more the spring as I move the stick around, but it is still accurate, it still falls back to center, and this is constant use, between FSX, SSMS, and Orbiter, for almost 4 years, maybe longer.

Of course I recommend you use FSUIPC for calibrations into FSX. You are doing yourself a great disservice not using FSUIPC.

Maybe I dont have such a displeasure when using it because I have used it for so darn long, and find it translates my movements with the stick into FSX very truthfully.

 

[Hielor]

A quick internet search brings up a few different things talking about how to remove the detents in the throttle:
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/204657-hacking-your-x52-x52-pro-to-remove-the-detents/

I have the X45, not the X52, but I hated the joystick on it so much that I just use a completely different joystick and only use the throttle from the X45 (the joystick just sits behind my computer).

 

[blixel]

I appreciate the feedback. Based on what I'm hearing so far, I think it just confirms my suspicions. The Saitek joystick just isn't for me. Even if I disassemble the throttle to remove the detents (possibly voiding the warranty - which may or may not matter), I still have the weird springy Saitek joystick that I don't like the feel of at all. Considering the price, I'm not willing to set half of it to the side. (Especially since it's the half that must be plugged in to the computer at all times. You can unplug the throttle portion and put it in the closet (if you don't want to use it for some reason), but the joystick portion has the USB connector - so it has to be on/near your desk.)

I guess I'll leave well enough alone and stick with my T-Flight Hotas. For a better throttle experience, maybe something like this would be more to be liking:

I suppose for Orbiter, you could even map one of the levers to the scram engines. Could be useful for atmospheric take off. Which is pretty much the only time I use a joystick in Orbiter anyway.

 

[Hielor]

Considering the price, I'm not willing to set half of it to the side. (Especially since it's the half that must be plugged in to the computer at all times. You can unplug the throttle portion and put it in the closet (if you don't want to use it for some reason), but the joystick portion has the USB connector - so it has to be on/near your desk.)

Makes sense. I'd had the X45 for a few years before I acquired another joystick, so putting it off to the side wasn't that big of a deal. Plus, the X45 lacks twist control (rudder is a weird flappy thing on the underside of the throttle), so putting aside the stick part of it wasn't a hard choice.

I guess I'll leave well enough alone and stick with my T-Flight Hotas. For a better throttle experience, maybe something like this would be more to be liking:

<snip>

I've got one of those, too, and I would have to say it's "okay." Movement is smooth, but it feels a little flimsly and plastic-y. Plus, unlike some others on the market, you're stuck with the black/blue/red throttle/prop/mixture end caps, so if you fly anything other than single-engine adjustable-pitch props it might seem a little awkward. I certainly prefer a HOTAS setup.

I suppose for Orbiter, you could even map one of the levers to the scram engines. Could be useful for atmospheric take off. Which is pretty much the only time I use a joystick in Orbiter anyway.

I don't think you can map an axis to the scram engines?

 

[blixel]

I've got one of those, too, and I would have to say it's "okay." Movement is smooth, but it feels a little flimsly and plastic-y. Plus, unlike some others on the market, you're stuck with the black/blue/red throttle/prop/mixture end caps, so if you fly anything other than single-engine adjustable-pitch props it might seem a little awkward.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to get my hands on the throttle quadrant to see what it feels like. I have a CH Flight Yoke and pedals (purchased something like 10 years ago). The throttle lever on the yoke always worked well enough for my taste.

For the various MSFS versions I've used over the years, I was always relatively happy with the CH Flight Yoke. (A couple of small things I don't care for, but I suppose nothing will ever be perfect.) The main problem with a Flight Yoke is that it just isn't convenient to use - quickly. (Mounting and unmounting from the desk.) So, I'm interested in finding hardware that is more convenient to set up. My poor CH Flight Yoke has been neglected for so long.

Some day, maybe, I'll have a home made cockpit that I can leave set up all the time.

I don't think you can map an axis to the scram engines?

Now that you mention it, I think you're right. Bummer. Feature request!

 

[jimblah]

I'm Happy

I never noticed the detents before. I like the X52-Pro. I've had mine for over a year now. I've started liking it even more now that I learned how to program it with Fly by Wire beta 1.0 (OHM), PPjoy, GlovePIE, the and Programming interface provided by Saitek. It seems complicated and possibly inefficient that it takes so much to dial in this piece of hardware, but its not. The trick is the GlovePIE script. You fiddle with that until you get it just the way you want it, and then you're done. There's another post here that introduced me to the method and goes into greater detail; Control Scheme for an X52, using GlovePIE and PPJoy through Fly-by-Wire by Harvester.