Project Shields (non-sci-fi-ones)

[d2k]

O-F Staff note: Thread moved to Add-on developement as project is active.

Unlike Sci-fi some real science spaceship shield system would even be more awesome looking, forget about bubbles or impact effects. Remember NASA's sheduled/cancelled manned flight to Mars? Well, originally they planned to include some kind of shielding against direct radiation, an emitter module which is hidden somewhere inside the ship. Their solution: A colourful surrounding around the ship, amazing colours, always moving, truly some eye-catcher. It looks like placing the "Nebular Vortex" were your ship is.

I can't do particle things but let me ask for this as Add-on, please. If somebody could add "Nebular Vortex" to a ship = that would be the solution. It must be located were the crew is, saving them from harm only with a soft and transparent shimmer (means "Nebula Vortex" must be set to minimum visibility and maximum colour range beeing arms of particles instead of a nebula circle – comparable to an polar Aurora. I will try to research on how the NASA shield would have looked like.

So far I only found this image but this ain't what it should look like, more colours, needs more colours and some "center of spirals with at least three arms and 6 colours, mostly blue, purple and red):

Maybe a mix of the above and this:

What do you think?

//edit: Of course it would be sweet to have some switch to turn it on/off (FPS could blow up, but when you are alone somewhere at deepspace, turn it on, watch the show, that's good entertainment). Now give us something like that, the Arrow Freighter awaits a shielding system (Orbiter, too).

 

[Loru]

Thought on graphical effect.

I'm not sure orbiter's particle system is well souited for it. As I noticed particles react to gravity and and atmospheric drag but not magnetic fileds. I think better solution would be texture with alpha map and clever dynamic UVW mapping (eg: seamless texture moved 1 pixel/frame in U or V direction) on mesh representing layers of magnetic fields.

Thought on imlementation/integration with vessels.

Module would have to be universal as not all vessel have open source code to re-compile. Something like UCD maybe? There are some transparency issues and that would require for "vortex" to be last vessel in scenario file.

 

[d2k]

Thought on graphical effect.

I'm not sure orbiter's particle system is well souited for it. As I noticed particles react to gravity and and atmospheric drag but not magnetic fileds. I think better solution would be texture with alpha map and clever dynamic UVW mapping (eg: seamless texture moved 1 pixel/frame in U or V direction) on mesh representing layers of magnetic fields.

Thought on imlementation/integration with vessels.

Module would have to be universal as not all vessel have open source code to re-compile. Something like UCD maybe? There are some transparency issues and that would require for "vortex" to be last vessel in scenario file.

Oh I see. Thanks for explaining (and btw I'm big fan of you Loru, glad to meet ya). Hm, I made a little screenshot series of an Arrow with a Nebula Vortex around it. This comes very close to the real world shielding system, what you think? Ok, sure it's way to oversized right now. About FPS I would say only a little amount of particles is needed to visualize the magnetic shield.





//edit: On the footage I saw (I can't recall the TV documentation) – the particles drag away (not really) but at least it looks like they are floating backwards against the flight direction. Now if a particle or whatever can fade out by getting smaller and smaller that would actually look like the thing I saw when I was watching that TV documentation, even having physical gravitation on it. The real world shield system tries to cover an area of a ship, placing a nebula vortex at the ships front would emulate that behavior IMO. Centered it would be even better positioned but this effect should also work on a XR2 or something of that size.

 

[Loru]

Proof of concept test 1:

Need to investigate.

 

[d2k]

Proof of concept test 1:

Need to investigate.

OMG! This looks stunningly amazing OMG it's almost done OMG OMG OMG!!
Keep it up, it's in good hands now, you rule big time!

:thumbup:

//edit: Please, post some more screenshots once you made it turn from the inner to the outter. If you need any help, we share the same profession, I could produce some graphics or whatever you ask for.

 

[Loru]

It's far from done.

First - it needs dedicated seamless alpha and color map not generic caustic and rainbow I used in that.

Second - It needs proper coding and my skills are at the moment at "compiling PB with altered mesh and thruster placements" level.

For this to be worthy add-on it needs:
- proper texture
- selectable mesh file system so it can be configure to reflect vessel's shape
- set of meshes for default types of craft + generic mesh to acomadate other vehicles
- attachment system to attach itself to vessels (dialog box??)
- alpha channel override to visualize power up/power down
- some particle emiters to simulate discharges

And on this note I'm going to work o/

 

[d2k]

I see

I agree, sounds like lots of work. I also agree on your list, you named everything that's needed. Thinking of that I could also imagine someone creating a magnetic storm feature, same problem – must cost lots of time to complete.

The texture thing I could provide but on this we should have a further talking. The best thing I could do now is find some image of the tv footage. This would explain itself best and could be used as "the right kind of inspiration source" since we both might not apply it like they "made it look". I could use C4D to create the textures and animations. Unfortunately, that's the only thing I could do to make this a real project. Somebody please join this conversation, graphic manpower is here in a double pack, how about some programming skills?

 

[Loru]

Some more thoughts on the project:

- From graphical POV it's easy work. Just really carefull UVW mapping to make it seamless but that's not issue for me. I could probably prepare mesh/texture set over 1-2 days (not sure if C4D is best tool for it and has proper mesh exporter)

- Recently I investigated Orbiter API to modify UVW on meshgroup and it's possible.

- Alpha map override can also be used for vary intensity of texture (make it pulsing/flicker a bit to add more dynamic to the overall effect.

- Meshes has to be double sided for effect to be visible from inside craft or camera placed inside "field"

Gimme few days to come up with specific examples and resources for coding.

 

[Urwumpe]

A shader program would be a better choice there, if we could somehow make one for OpenGL or DirectX clients.

 

[Loru]

A shader program would be a better choice there, if we could somehow make one for OpenGL or DirectX clients.

Unless orbiter core have direct support of that I don't think it's nescessary. I don't like limiting user to certain graphics client.

Even dx7 gives nice possibilities if you're carefull and little mad.

---------- Post added 12-07-13 at 12:21 AM ---------- Previous post was 12-06-13 at 06:54 PM ----------

Primary list of shield types:

Generic sphere shield 10m
Generic sphere shield 20m
Generic sphere shield 30m
DG (standard size all types)
XR2
XR5
Arrow

More info on Sunday. Project is going.

 

[Donamy]

You may also get an interesting effect, by rotating the sphere.

 

[Loru]

Well - sphere was just a concept - I plan distinct meshes for popular spacecraft that will encompas their distinct shapes.

 

[Donamy]

What is the theory for this shield ? I would think it was invisible, until it reacts with the radiation, ala borealis'.

 

[Loru]

That's the theory behind it. As soon as we get prototype working we can experiment with different trigers - but aurora mechanism apllies here.

 

[DaveS]

What is the theory for this shield ? I would think it was invisible, until it reacts with the radiation, ala borealis'.

This is correct. I believe the incorrect belief on the OPs part stems from not realizing that the images are fake, just CGI made solely for purposes of illustration. In reality magnetic fields such as Earth's are totally invisible to the naked eye.

 

[Loru]

Yes - but particles caugth in magnetic field can produce visible radiation (synchrotron radiation?) Can't be sure from top of my head and it's 3 am so good night o/

 

[d2k]

Yes - but particles caugth in magnetic field can produce visible radiation (synchrotron radiation?) Can't be sure from top of my head and it's 3 am so good night o/

I agree on that, IMO they were saying something about visuals, that strong impacts produce beautiful colours (but it could also be like most documentations not taking care what they show us, like ultraviolet images presented as "as seen by the human eye").
Anyway: Theres one good argument for it: It was a "let's do the mars mission from beginning till touchdown and first colonization thing". It was like a movie but it also was a documentation explaining things. In one scene the actors played astronauts talking, in the other the overall speaker said something. I learned lots watching it. Production timeframe: 2009 – 2011 (don't remember).
I will google it, it's out there, I just saw it again some months ago but stupid me was busy playing Orbiter while watching. :facepalm:

I'm still searching for the documentation and it seems it points to an french documentation (was an international big scale thing with australia, canada, spain or somewhat) ...showed on the french-german tv station "arte". The topic was Mission to Mars or something related to Mars. This documentation was funded by many well known organizations like esa (afaik).

 

[Loru]

"Documentary" you're talking about probably is BBC journey to the planets

 

[d2k]

You agree there are uncountable amounts of documentaries out there? I saw some History Channel ones, some BBC ones, some Discovery ones. In addition german documentaries are often funded by the government, very serious stuff, also lots of productions over a year span.

Just saying, never mind, please.

/edit: All I can say is it had actors, real actors, a female ?commander, a chinese crewman, those are the two I can remember.

 

[Andy44]

So, the idea is to use the spacecraft's hull as a big electromagnet to deflect charged particles, right?

Assuming this works, you'd still get trapped particles near the poles, wouldn't you?

And I thought charged particles make aurora displays only when they interact with air molecules, so if your vessel is in deep space, would you see any glow at all?

Back to that assumption, has anyone done the math on how strong a mag field you need for this to provide enough protection? A space vehicle is much smaller than a planet and doesn't have an atmosphere to help with protection.

And then there is the question of protection for the avionics and crew in the presence of a strong mag field...

Now having said all that, a colored, shimmering shield effect is always a cool thing to have!