Soviet Launches Cover-ups

[razgriz31m]

I have read many news and informations about soviet space conspiracies, and the most heart-breaking was the girl named "Ludmila" although I really don't know if that's the first or surname. She was said to be the real 1st woman in space, not Valentina. Radio Communications of the capsule and Soviet controllers was recorded in a hearing post made by brothers in Italy. She eventually died because of defective thermal shield or wrong re-entry procedures, the following files is the recording of the last transmission and transcripts(text)

Then 3 day later, Soviet Union announced that there will be an unmanned spacecraft falling back to Earth, they said it was "unmanned".

http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/cosmo.ra
http://www.lostcosmonauts.com/tradeng.htm

 

[Urwumpe]

Hoax.

The brothers in Italy are very famous for claims of lost astronauts. Which are all based on their own observations alone, while other more serious researchers can't confirm this.

Look here:
http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/Torre/TorreB.html

 

[razgriz31m]

but what about the recordings?

 

[Chipstone306]

I have read about this before. A lot of the "lost cosmonaut" information can be traced back to unmanned tests using dumbies in the capsules. It is an interesting theory almost believeable though during that time there was a LOT if misinformation from both parties involved in the space race. I think it is however nothing more than a conspiracy theory .......

 

[Graham2001]

Whenever someone brings up those claims I point them to the following pages, all of which have information on these tales:

1. Svens Space Page:
http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/Torre/TorreB.html

2. Encyclopedia Astronautica
http://www.astronautix.com/astrogrp/phaonaut.htm

3. James Obergs Homepage
http://www.igs.net/~hwt/oberg/deadcosm.htm

 

[Urwumpe]

but what about the recordings?

Look at this recording of Komarov:

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/sounds/KOMAROV2.mp3

Their recording is so garbled, it can be anything, while this recording of a real flight has a rather good sound quality.

 

[Graham2001]

Look at this recording of Komarov:

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/sounds/KOMAROV2.mp3

Their recording is so garbled, it can be anything, while this recording of a real flight has a rather good sound quality.

You beat me to the punch, I was going to use this recording of Popovich from Soyuz 14:

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/sounds/SOYU14.mp3

Again it's a clear recording made with amateur equipment.

 

[razgriz31m]

hmmmm....the file of ludmila has a very low volume but i bet if it's loud enough it can be clear?? just my opinion

 

[MajorTom]

Look at this recording of Komarov:

http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/sounds/KOMAROV2.mp3

Their recording is so garbled, it can be anything, while this recording of a real flight has a rather good sound quality.

I can't understand what's being said, but it doesn't sound like a recording of Komarov cursing the spacecraft designers after his chute failed but prior to his hard landing...

 

[Urwumpe]

I can't understand what's being said, but it doesn't sound like a recording of Komarov cursing the spacecraft designers after his chute failed but prior to his hard landing...

Komarov did not curse the spacecraft designers. "Komarov's voice was reported to be 'calm, unhurried, without any nervousness'"

He also commanded Voshkod 1, so it can also be from that mission - which is a better example for the vostok radio communication as Voshkod used the same radio gear as Vostok.

 

[Urwumpe]

hmmmm....the file of ludmila has a very low volume but i bet if it's loud enough it can be clear?? just my opinion

Signal-to-noise does not get better if you increase the volume.

 

[unknown]

What is the next version of Soyuz TMA?

Find it at en.wikipedia.org.

 

[thomasantony]

Is this guy a wikipedia stooge? What the hell is he selling?

 

[Urwumpe]

I don't know, but Wikipedia does not have it correct. TMAT is no correct russian acronym for a improved version of Soyuz TMA.

According to "Soyuz: A Universal Spacecraft", which is a very accurate book about the Soyuz family and which can list references (other than the Soyuz family article on Wikipedia, so don't rely on it), the next version of Soyuz TMA would be Soyuz TMS (unknown what the S is, but it could be related to a Russia-fication of the Soyuz program, as it is removing dependency on foreign components and landing sites), which is a immediate step until the long term goal in the Soyuz family called Soyuz TMM ("Soyuz Transport modified twice")

Soyuz TMM will change almost everything in Soyuz TMA and break with the traditional configuration of many Soyuz subsystems, I quote:

• Replacement of the computer previously installed in the propulsion compartment on Soyuz TM, together with the computer in the DM, with one single upgraded unit in the DM.
• The installation of improved telemetry system throughout spacecraft
• The installation of a satellite relay system, designated Regul.
• The installation of an autonomous satellite navigation system and an improved Kurs rendezvous system, designated Kurs-MM.
• The installation of a pair of additional braking engines and the approach and docking engine subsystem. This was apparently incorporated as a result of experiences of near collisions and collisions during Mir missions. (The ATV has already such a system, based on the Russian experiences)
• Modifications to the automatic landing control system, and a decision to deploy the recovery parachutes at a lower altitude in order to improve landing accuracy.
• An increase in the maximum flight duration margin to 380 days (or 12.6 months) by the introduction of a thermoelectric cooling system for the hydrogen peroxide thrusters on the DM, the installation of improved storage batteries and the fabrication of the oxidizer tanks in the propulsion compartment out of steel instead of the aluminum alloy previously used.

 

[SiberianTiger]

I don't know, but Wikipedia does not have it correct. TMAT is no correct russian acronym for a improved version of Soyuz TMA.

According to "Soyuz: A Universal Spacecraft", which is a very accurate book about the Soyuz family and which can list references (other than the Soyuz family article on Wikipedia, so don't rely on it), the next version of Soyuz TMA would be Soyuz TMS (unknown what the S is, but it could be related to a Russia-fication of the Soyuz program, as it is removing dependency on foreign components and landing sites), which is a immediate step until the long term goal in the Soyuz family called Soyuz TMM ("Soyuz Transport modified twice")

Soyuz TMM will change almost everything in Soyuz TMA and break with the traditional configuration of many Soyuz subsystems, I quote:

Actually, today are only some provisions for the so called 700th series, which is basically a TMA with replaced computer and control panel. The current plans schedule the first flight of one to March, 2010.

 

[Urwumpe]

Actually, today are only some provisions for the so called 700th series, which is basically a TMA with replaced computer and control panel. The current plans schedule the first flight of one to March, 2010.

Energia should really separate the manned spaceflight business from it's main company and bring it to the stock exchange. I am sure, this would get more money into the Soyuz program as just relying on government money which never comes, because Energia's rivals control the RSA...

 

[Ghostrider]

Ah, the Judica-Cordiglia brothers. Can't really blame them if some absurd story came out, Torre Bert was practically a base camp for journalists back in the early days of the Space Race, and journalists when short of news will make them up. And afterwards, it's a bit hard to get rid of them...

 

[SiberianTiger]

Energia should really separate the manned spaceflight business from it's main company and bring it to the stock exchange. I am sure, this would get more money into the Soyuz program as just relying on government money which never comes, because Energia's rivals control the RSA...

Not anymore since Sevastyanov has left the office and got replaced by Lopota. Do you really believe that an enterprise engaged in manned spaceflight can really do a business on its own? Perhaps the only part of Energia which can survive more or less without state funding is the sector which produces Yamal satellites on their own bus. They are financed by OAO Gazcom, which is a Gazprom's affiliated structure. The three sats are already up there, providing a comm link with Western Siberia.

Also, that's not lack of money but poor management is what has been plaguing Energia last several years.

 

[Urwumpe]

Not anymore since Sevastyanov has left the office and got replaced by Lopota.

Ah OK, did not yet learn about that change. Did also something change about the union of the other spaceflight companies against Energia?

Do you really believe that an enterprise engaged in manned spaceflight can really do a business on its own?

Yes, of course. The question is more can such a company get away from pure government contracts and pork barrel? That is a key question. As long as a government is willed to pay a fixed budget every year with the launch rates depending on launch costs more than actual demands (for the ISS, more launches would be needed), manned spaceflight has no reason to get cheaper directly.

But if a 5% drop in launch costs would result in 7.5% more launches, it could start getting towards an economy.

Perhaps the only part of Energia which can survive more or less without state funding is the sector which produces Yamal satellites on their own bus. They are financed by OAO Gazcom, which is a Gazprom's affiliated structure. The three sats are already up there, providing a comm link with Western Siberia.

Yes, but in that segment Energia will never become a big player, they are too much specialized on the manned spaceflight business. Like the Yamal satellites which are basically just derived from the manned spaceflight project.

Also, that's not lack of money but poor management is what has been plaguing Energia last several years.

I think it is a mix of both. Energia was capable of marketing itself well, thats why I think it could get private money for manned spaceflight.

But the actual engineering seems to go bad, and I think it is mostly a "No bucks, no buck rogers" problem. The budgets had been far too small for the projects. maybe it would have been better by the management, to not attempt the projects anyway.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Ah OK, did not yet learn about that change. Did also something change about the union of the other spaceflight companies against Energia?

I think not. Inside Russia it's still a rivaling between Khrunichev, Makeev and Energia, who are, in turn are natuarally allied with the Samara space centre who churn out the R7 derivatives. There is currently a fighting over the next generation of the middle-class launcher, will it be Angara 3 or a Souyz on steroids.

BTW, Sevastianov himself after few months of obscureness and apparent looking for a job popped up as a deputy head or Amur Region administration. It's self-evident that now he is a presidental protege and is charged with the task of leading the works of the new Vostochny (The Eastern) Cosmodrome. Essentially speaking, he's been given a card blanche once again.

Lopota is a former head of the St Petersburg instutute of Cybernetics and everyone expects him to swing the scale in favour of robotic development inside Energia. He has expressed many of his viewpoints in this lengthy interview: http://www.energia.ru/rus/news/news-2008/public_02-05.html
For instance, he wants Klipper to be stripped off wings and be renamed.

But if a 5% drop in launch costs would result in 7.5% more launches, it could start getting towards an economy.

You've got a point here, but I think this is mostly a matter of demand on the payload delivered up there divided by this cost.

Yes, but in that segment Energia will never become a big player, they are too much specialized on the manned spaceflight business. Like the Yamal satellites which are basically just derived from the manned spaceflight project.

Can you elaborate on which manned project you believe was a foundation for the Yamals? They are the first Russian commercial satellites with an unpressurized 3-axis stabilized bus, AFAIK. How can they be related to a Soyuz's PAO or whatever?

But the actual engineering seems to go bad, and I think it is mostly a "No bucks, no buck rogers" problem. The budgets had been far too small for the projects. maybe it would have been better by the management, to not attempt the projects anyway.

That's true. Another problem is that most of Energia's establishements are centered near Moscow, and this is an area with quickly growing costs, especially on the land and labour. Almost no one wants to work for the few kopeikas they are willing to pay nowadays. This way Russian space companies may lose the market of the cheap lauches as they investments into labour will grow up, unless they manage to get a decent and instant engineering talent return from those investments. Which is hard to predict and quite doubtful.