Question Taking on Pirates

[SiberianTiger]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8664011.stm


http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/marshal-shaposhnikov.jpg

Helps if you have something like that.

N.

BEAUTIFUL! Thank you very much, bratishki! We owe you a lot.

Yesterday the pirates threatened to kill everyone on board in case a storming begins.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100506/158894303.html

"During the reconnaissance preceding the assault operation, the Russian sailors simultaneously used helicopters and speedboats while special forces covertly approached the tanker," the official said adding that after a short shootout the pirates were detained and put under the custodial guard to one of the tanker's compartment..


"During the large anti-submarine ship Marshal Shaposhnikov's special operation, the pirates on board the Moscow University tanker opened fire using small arms. One of them [pirates] was shot during return fire," the military official said, adding none of the Russian sailors was injured.


According to the ministry official, the pirates' weapons were seized, including large-caliber, grenade launchers and the equipment used to board the tanker (ladder and grappling hooks).
MOSCOW, May 6 (RIA Novosti)

 

[Notebook]

It was on the BBC a few days ago, then went quiet, so I guessed they were negotiating. Glad to see its ended.
I think they are pushing their luck with a Russian vessel, I would put them next to the French when it comes to "negotiations".

N.

 

[SiberianTiger]

I think they are pushing their luck with a Russian vessel, I would put them next to the French when it comes to "negotiations".

N.

According to the news, the captive pirates are likely to be delivered for trial to Moscow. By Russian law, they are facing 15 years of confinement.

Russian Pacific Fleet Command promised to award everyone who distinguished himself during the tanker's liberation (probably including the tanker's crew).

 

[Andy44]

These pirates aren't very bright. When there's a large warship near you and a bunch fo commandos coming your way, threatening to shoot the hostages is a good way to get killed. They're lucky they lived.

And lucky there were no US Navy SEALS with sniper rifles...

 

[SiberianTiger]

And lucky there were no US Navy SEALS with sniper rifles...

How do they manage to shoot off a rocking boat?

 

[Bj]

How do they manage to shoot off a rocking boat?

GPS tracking? or lots and lots of bullets?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1SxQ0arrSo"]YouTube- Future Weapons - Smart Heavy Artillery[/nomedia]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M982_Excalibur

Or maybe automatic targeting, like you see on M2A2 Abrams

 

[Zatnikitelman]

Or maybe our snipers are just that good. Regardless of how they did it, they did it and saved the captain of the Maersk Alabama.

 

[Andy44]

No, they didn't use any fancy tech, they just practiced trigger control. Yes, it takes LOTS of practice.

 

[SiberianTiger]

WTF happened? :blink:

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/05/07/2734159/russia-says-pirates-who-held-tanker.html

MOSCOW -- The pirates seized by a Russian warship off the coast of Somalia have been released because of "imperfections" in international law, Russia's Defense Ministry said Friday.


Authorities initially said the pirates would be brought to Russia to face criminal charges after hijacking a Russian oil tanker. But Defense Ministry spokesman Col. Alexei Kuznetsov told The Associated Press on Friday that the pirates have been released.


Kuznetsov declined to elaborate on the purported legal flaws that prompted the release.



The Law of the Seas Convention, to which Russia is a signatory, says that the courts of a country that seizes a pirated vessel on the high seas has the right to decide what penalties are to be imposed. However, some countries are wary of hauling in pirates for trial for fear of being saddled with them after they serve prison terms.


Kuznetsov appeared to echo those concerns when asked why the pirates who seized the tanker were released.


"Why should we feed some pirates?" he said.


Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Thursday had hinted at potential tough punishment for the pirates, saying "perhaps we should get back to the idea of establishing an international court and other legal tools" to prosecute pirates. "Until then, we'll have to do what our forefathers did when they met the pirates," he said.

Unconfirmable Russian sources also say that the pirates were disarmed and released in their own rubber boat, at 300 miles away from the nearest shore, with their GPS equipment removed. One hour later, the boat's radar mark disappeared.

 

[n72.75]

Piracy should never be tolerated in a civilized world, we need to teach these people a lesson.

 

[Urwumpe]

How do they manage to shoot off a rocking boat?

After a few bottles of rum for stabilization, this works.

 

[Andy44]

Sounds fishy to me: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100507/ap_on_re_eu/eu_piracy

At least one guy seems to think they were killed. Whatever it is, something wierd's going on.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Sounds fishy to me: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100507/ap_on_re_eu/eu_piracy

At least one guy seems to think they were killed. Whatever it is, something wierd's going on.

He is probably right:

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=15112461&PageNum=0

MOSCOW, May 11 (Itar-Tass) - The pirates who seized the Moscow University Tanker in the Gulf of Aden have been unable to reach the shore, according to the latest reports, and mostly likely have perished, a high-placed Defense Ministry official told reporters.

My humble opinion, that was low, no matter what legal complications holding them in captivity involved. I'm a naïve believer that honour still matters something.

 

[Jarvitä]

The pirate boat obviously hit a tree. And the captain neglected ATC warnings about fog.

 

[Urwumpe]

My humble opinion, that was low, no matter what legal complications holding them in captivity involved. I'm a naïve believer that honour still matters something.

Aye. That was maybe happening in a legal grayzone, since pirates are no prisoners of war, but killing unarmed prisoners is dark. Really dark.

Looks like the ghost of Stalin is still around. You don't kill millions of people by being fair.

 

[Andy44]

As long as you do not discriminate among your murder victims by race, gender, sexual preference, age, handicap, or preference of Pepsi vs. Coke, it's fair.

I wonder if we'll ever find out what really happened. Will there be an inquiry or an investigation? I'm pretty sure if this had happened in the US Navy or Coast Guard the captain would be under the hot lamp getting wirebrushed up his backside right about now.

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm pretty sure if this had happened in the US Navy or Coast Guard the captain would be under the hot lamp getting wirebrushed up his backside right about now.

If it happened in the German Army, the public would already be gathering wood for the stakes. Just look at the crazy reaction after the Kunduz bombing, where the German Army giving is the families of the victims money and cattle, because their relatives had been trying to buy/get stolen fuel from terrorists late at night, far away from their villages.

I think bombing was the wrong reaction at all, and the many lies of the German army about the bombing are just showing the collected incompetence there, but at the same time, I think anybody around the trucks should have been arrested and tried for various small crimes.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Aye. That was maybe happening in a legal grayzone, since pirates are no prisoners of war, but killing unarmed prisoners is dark. Really dark.

I am not sure that actual killing of prisoners happened. Accroding to the media, the investigation that had begun was terminated and the suspects were given a boat and released. The next day, a strage message that the pirates would have certainly perished in the high seas, was leaked by our MoD.

I don't know if releasing them at the points they've been in (unknown one, too), was effectively dooming to death, or it was just like throwing a rabbit in the briar patch. Assuming (1) it's a crime prosecuted according to Russian Crime code, chapter 125 ('abandoning in danger'). Assuming (2), it's an idiocy.

In addition, when Western media catches a story like this, it's beginning to work as a black P&R for Russian armed forces. At this point, it doesn't really matter, what actually happened there - the previous positive P&R effect from liberating the hostages has been nullified altogether.

Also, I can't see how lawful is releasing suspects during a criminal investigation. AFAIK, it contradicts to several chapters of the Procedural Code at once. Some rumors are, the entire thing was handled with 'an override control' from the 'very top'. If this is true, it says a lot about how really our supreme powers care about law, but it's not anything new.

When I tried to raise these concerns on a thematic military forum, I've got accused of trolling, banned the next day and all my posts deleted. People there (mostly servicemen) were pretty happy with the idea that the ship attackers might have been abandoned in a sea, left tied with a clockwork bomb in their boat, or even secretly executed aboard the ship. They assume that maximum terror towards pirates is the excellent deterrent against any future attacks on Russian crewed ships. This is like the USSR was acting all along, according to them. I've been given a recent example when a French force successfully counter attacked a pirate settlement in response to a hostage taking.

I am not sure I was right - probably it's how the real world really works. We'll see.

 

[Andy44]

When I tried to raise these concerns on a thematic military forum, I've got accused of trolling, banned the next day and all my posts deleted. People there (mostly servicemen) were pretty happy with the idea that the ship attackers might have been abandoned in a sea, left tied with a clockwork bomb in their boat, or even secretly executed aboard the ship. They assume that maximum terror towards pirates is the excellent deterrent against any future attacks on Russian crewed ships.

You get these types of people in every country, I'm afraid. Pro-state extremists.

That attitude sounds very much like the "get tough on terrorism" and "support the troops" memes currently driving American popular thought. We have a TV show called "24" starring Keifer Sutherland which, in addition to being quite thrilling, also depicts torture as a perfectly effective interrogation technique.

Apparently, it's pretty easy to get ordinary people to act like savages, or least talk like it, even in the modern world. And they want their savagery to be legitimized by the state, which really scares me.

 

[Ghostrider]

We have a TV show called "24" starring Keifer Sutherland which, in addition to being quite thrilling, also depicts torture as a perfectly effective interrogation technique.

"24" is great in that it shows you how difficult it is to apply common morals to the kind of stuff that happens in the real world. Jack Bauer not only tortures terrorists (and the occasional family member), he also shoots up old friends, cuts off their hands, sends off colleagues to their deaths and understands that he's just an expendable asset and sooner or later he'll be the one on the wrong end of the deal. I don't think anyone sane would like to be in his shoes anyway...