General Question Titan Orbit Project Help

[deanmadoo]

Hey guys,

I'm a forth year aerospace engineering student and I am doing a thesis on designing the return aspect of a sample mission to Titan. I would like to use orbiter to generate some results to further my research.

My question is, is there a way to start with a spacecraft already orbiting Titan? So I would be able to simulate trajectories or manuevers starting from a parking orbit arund Titan. This would help me alot in the design of return trajectories and other manuevers for my project.

I am completely new to Orbiter however, from my degree, I am familiar with orbital mechanics and spaceflight dynamics. Is there any relevent documentations or tutorials that I need to go through? I just need guides on how to create a parking orbit around Titan and how to simulate general manuevers, trjectories and Deta V burns.

My main goal is to try to simulate an transition from a parking orbit around Titan to another parking orbit around Saturn. With the final orbit having a radius the same as Titan's orbit radius around Saturn.

Regards,
Dean

 

[jedidia]

My question is, is there a way to start with a spacecraft already orbiting Titan?

You can put one there using the scenario editor (has to be activated in the modules tab in the launchpad, then opened using ctrl-F4). Choose the vessel, position, Titan as reference and enter the desired orbital elements.

 

[dgatsoulis]

I just need guides on how to create a parking orbit around Titan and how to simulate general manuevers, trjectories and Deta V burns.

To create your own scenarios in Orbiter you'll need to use the scenario editor. Read pages 19-20 (4.4 Modules Tab) in the Orbiter manual to learn how to activate it and the scenario editor manual to learn how to use the it.

Orbiter manual: $orbiterroot\Doc\Orbiter.pdf

Scenario editor manual: $orbiterroot\Doc\ScenarioEditor.pdf

To learn the interface see section 21.Flight Checklists (p.113) in the Orbiter manual.

Another must-read is Bruce Irving's Go Play In Space

To help you get started, I have attached a scenario with a fictional spacecraft (the "stock" Deltaglider), in a 500km x 500km orbit around Titan's equator.

Unzip the file in your @orbiterroot\Scenarios folder and then run Orbiter. Select the "DG in Titan orbit" scenario and press "Launch Orbiter".

 

[deanmadoo]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.

I have another question. Does orbiter simulate the restricted three body problem accurately? For example would I be able to simulate an orbit transition manuever from a parking orbit around Titan to a Saturn orbit?

Regards,

 

[jedidia]

I have another question. Does orbiter simulate the restricted three body problem accurately? For example would I be able to simulate an orbit transition manuever from a parking orbit around Titan to a Saturn orbit?

Orbiter does simulate the gravitational sources and their effects accurately (even non-spherical gravity), but the navigation tools usually don't (TransX and IMFD use analytical two-body solutions for calculating their trajectories, which is why you almost always need a correction burn somewhere during the trip). So it might be problematic to plan certain trajectories accurately, but you can definitely fly them if you have a reliable solution.

 

[deanmadoo]

I am having issues with transfering from an orbit around Titan to an orbit around Saturn.
Once I apply a burn to escape out of Titan's SOI, The spacecraft wont continue to orbit around Saturn.

 

[dgatsoulis]

It is difficult to help you without more information. When asking for help with trajectories, it would be best to post the scenario and/or a screenshot of your orbital elements in OrbitMFD.

 

[jedidia]

Once I apply a burn to escape out of Titan's SOI, The spacecraft wont continue to orbit around Saturn.

Then you probably burned too much...? hard to tell without any information on what's actually happening.

 

[deanmadoo]

I have gotten the hang of it. Thanks guys.
By the way, how do I have the simulator display the amount of delta V burn I applied?

 

[jedidia]

By the way, how do I have the simulator display the amount of delta V burn I applied?

Depends entirely on the Nav tool you're using.

 

[flytandem]

Titan Saturn Jupiter Earth

This morning I have played a bit with the idea of going from Titan to Earth. I think it can either be a single burn that ejects both Titan and Saturn from low Titan orbit or it could be where one escapes Titan and falls to a low Pe at Saturn and do an oberth effect (gravity well) burn at the Saturn Pe. Perhaps there are other methods too.

I found the following as the deltaV from low Titan orbit. To get to low Saturn orbit is about 4030 m/s then at the Saturn Pe it is 1030 m/s which takes me out to a sling of Jupiter then to Earth. It's a bit like the voyager tour but in reverse.

Here is a scenario that has a surrogate ship named s1 in low Saturn orbit with the TransX plan to eject to Jupiter then sling to Earth. Also is a ship called sampler sitting on Titan. The goal is to fly sampler into Titan orbit then eject to low Pe at Saturn and have it use s1 as a target plane. Then as you near Saturn, inherit the TransX plan from s1 and do the gravity well burn near Saturn Pe. Then do MCCs as necessary to sling Jupiter to Earth. The sling at Jupiter in effect is to take away some of the energy so the arrival speed at Earth is slower.

I would be curious to see how other methods of going Titan to Earth fare in deltaV. My gut feel was this method is the best but often gut feel is incorrect.

BEGIN_DESC

END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 56838.7644265992
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship s1
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BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET s1
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 60.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
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  REF AUTO
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END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE User
  MODE TransX
END_MFD

BEGIN_SHIPS
sampler:Deltaglider
  STATUS Landed Titan
  POS -80.0000003 -0.0224710
  HEADING 90.00
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  GEAR 1 1.0000
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
s1:Deltaglider
  STATUS Orbiting Saturn
  RPOS -55913583.93 -22892252.04 21277305.14
  RVEL -269.095 -16211.188 -18146.978
  AROT -48.58 -29.20 8.54
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.985692 1:0.992641
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_VistaBoost
END

 

[dgatsoulis]

I found the following as the deltaV from low Titan orbit. To get to low Saturn orbit is about 4030 m/s then at the Saturn Pe it is 1030 m/s which takes me out to a sling of Jupiter then to Earth. It's a bit like the voyager tour but in reverse.

:hmm:I don't know Rob. 5km/s to get from Titan to Jupiter sounded a bit much. But I saw that for the sling, you dropped well below Jupiter's orbit and then used the planet as a "brake".

Back in this thread, you used 3.78 km/s for a Titan to Mars direct trip, so I think that a combination of that and the plan you posted would be much cheaper. Titan→Jupiter sling→Earth, without falling in Saturn's well. I'll set it up and see how it goes.



---------------------------EDIT-------------------------------

Yeap, this solution uses a little bit less than half the Δv (2.4 km/s) for Titan to Earth via Jupiter.
It was fun to setup, because I had to start from the middle to the end and then setup the middle to start plan.

First I found a Jupiter→Earth window and that had Jupiter in a convinient position for a low Δv Saturn→Jupiter transfer. Then I setup the Saturn→Jupiter transfer and the Jupiter→Earth slingshot, which also needed a 0.5km/s burn at Jupiter Pe.

Then I worked my way back to the escape plan where I setup the altitude at the height of Titan's orbit around Saturn. This helped me to find the date for the eject maneuver at stage1. Since I used very little plane change in the transfer, I placed the DG at 0 degrees Ecliptic incl. around a 675km orbit around Titan.
The cost for the eject was 1,9km/s. I had to turn the "advanced on" and the "autoplan off" on all the stages except the last.

Here is the preliminary plan 1/4 orbit away from the first burn. Here normally, I set up a second instance of transX, add the same stages and only setup the same maneuver on stage1, so I can see if the trajectory after the maneuver agrees with the plan I have setup. Unfortunately, exiting a scenario with two instances of transX, gets them mixed up and the plan is lost, so I'm posting below the plan of just one of the instances:

BEGIN_DESC
Contains the latest simulation state.
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BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 57007.0666943997
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship GL1
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET GL1
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 60.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
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BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE User
  MODE TransX
  Ship  GL1
  FNumber 6
  Int 0
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BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE User
  MODE TransX
END_MFD

BEGIN_SHIPS
GL1:Deltaglider
  STATUS Orbiting Titan
  RPOS 454640.97 -12.70 -3217996.28
  RVEL 1648.495 0.001 232.910
  AROT -27.89 -6.36 4.93
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.061656 1:0.024230
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END

This serves as a great quide, in order to set up the maneuvers on a second TransX or even IMFD.

 

[kamaz]

By the way, how do I have the simulator display the amount of delta V burn I applied?

In Orbit MFD, "Vel." shows your velocity relative to the body currently set as reference (which usually is the body you are currently orbiting). Substract values before and after the burn. (Yes, I know. This only works if burn is short enough to be treated as an impulse burn).

Another method is to note the amount of fuel before and after the burn (in stock deltaglider, it's shown in the lower panel -- press DownArrow) and apply rocket equation. DeltaGlider has Isp of 40 kN·s/kg.

Edit: And I just noticed that this panel shows your delta-v budget

 

[jonmatifa]

http://gmat.gsfc.nasa.gov/

I've had my eye on this tool for a while, but haven't cracked into it yet. Supposedly it will allow you to design and visualize complex mission profiles and capture/process a lot of relevant data (with appropriate matlab exports, etc) The kind of thing you want if you're thinking about planning a real mission.

Orbiter still gives you the feeling like you "actually did it", there's no topping that!

 

[flytandem]

Awesome plan dimitri. That's what I'm talking about. Some great input on a fun challenge. !!!

edit: have you flown this plan?. why I ask is that in stage 3 the encounter velocity at Jupiter is 3588 m/s which is usually not enough to sling to earth. Usually more like 5500 m/s is needed. I suspect something wrong with the plan and the way the stages are set up. But flying it would help see if it is working correctly. I did play with direct eject from titan to Jupiter. Seems it needed about 1960 m/s eject and then a plane change of around 700 m/s part way to Jupiter. But that is still better than going in to low Pe at Saturn. The low Pe does have the advantage that it gets all the rest done with no need for a major plane change but the cost of going low to Saturn is greater than the savings.

 

[dgatsoulis]

I haven't flown it yet, because I'm having trouble understanding why this plan costs so much less than the plan you posted. Intuitively, your plan should be better than leaving straight from Titan, but I'm guessing the added orbital velocity around Titan plays a role here. Anyway, I'll sort this out with a pencil some paper and some reading.

The 700m/s plane change is because Titan is fairly inclined relative to the ecliptic, so if you eject as it is, you are at ~ 20° R.Inc to the plan. Major burn but as you said, still cheaper than dropping to Saturn first. In Stage3 you'll notice that the Δv is at ~0.5 km/s, meaning that this will be an added maneuver. So far the plan costs 1.9(eject)+0.7(pl.change)+0.5(Burn at Jup. Pe)= 3.1 km/s

 

[flytandem]

I have tried another method that might end up being the best way although a bit involved. It has the ship eject from Titan prograde to raise the Ap of the ship out in a highly eccentric orbit around Saturn. At the Ap do a plane change and retrograde to drop the Pe just above Saturn atmosphere. In the gravity well do a prograde burn.

I do start with a surrogate around Saturn at low orbit to get a plan going to Jupiter then sling Earth. It takes more encounter speed to sling directly to Earth than to sling Mars for an aerosling to Earth, but this project is better going directly to Earth i think.

Anyway, the surrogate needs to be oriented so the Pe of the eject trajectory is directly under the Titan orbit. This allows that high Ap plane change to place the ship exactly in plane with the surrogate.

Then knowing the date of the eject to Jupiter you back up time about 450 days and start a scenario there with a sampler ship in equatorial orbit at titan about 1.25 titan radii. Advance time until Titan is crossing the surrogate ship's orbit (node).

Step 1: burn prograde about 1430 m/s to get the sampler ship to eject Titan and have a high Ap highly eccentric orbit around Saturn. I found that about 1430 gives about a 450 day period. This allows the return to Pe to be at the date of the plan to eject to Jupiter.

Step 2: burn at the Ap as it crosses the node with the surrogate. It's a combination of plane change and retrograde totaling about 420 m/s.

Step 3: inherit the plan from the surrogate, and at or near the Pe of the orbit at Saturn when going at high speed just above the atmosphere only about 280 m/s is needed.

I flew the plan as described above and found that even though I had planned on a 450 day orbit for the plane change I had returned about 50 days earlier than the plan. But it still worked out fairly well. The usual frustrating MCC going between Saturn and Jupiter were there but no greater than usual while slinging the outer planets.

 

[dgatsoulis]

Heh, funny, I was just setting up almost the exact same thing, but without the surrogate.

I'm thinking of trying it first with just plane change at apoapsis and then with plane change+retro to see how much is the difference for total Δv.

 

[flytandem]

I like it and also the way you have assembled the screen shots.
It makes sense that having a slow encounter at Jupiter that you need to set up a maneuver in the gravity well (or whatever amount of well you get in the sling).

Looks like you were just doing a plane change in the Ap of the first eccentric orbit at Saturn. Mixing in some retrograde would drop the Saturn Pe making a more effective gravity well burn. But you are easily able to do this as a choice when setting up that burn.

The plan I flew was even more eccentric in that first orbit taking nearly 300 days longer longer but by doing this it reduced the plane change deltaV and allowed a lower deltaV reduction of Saturn Pe which then because of being so close to Saturn, allowed very little deltaV needed to eject to Jupiter. Since it is a very effective Pe eject burn, the difference between arriving slowly to Jupiter (type 2 transfer) as you are setting up and heading to a faster encounter (type 1 transfer) is likely just a few m/s in the Saturn eject burn. This would eliminate the need for the burn at Jupiter and also gets the ship home about 5 years sooner.

 

[dgatsoulis]

Since it is a very effective Pe eject burn, the difference between arriving slowly to Jupiter (type 2 transfer) as you are setting up and heading to a faster encounter (type 1 transfer) is likely just a few m/s in the Saturn eject burn. This would eliminate the need for the burn at Jupiter and also gets the ship home about 5 years sooner.

This is where I thought I was actually saving Δv.
In the first plan you posted, at the Eject stage you have -2.8 km/s of Prograde, while mine had -1.8 km/s.
This made me think that I would save 1 km/s out of the escape plan, so I didn't mind the 0.5 km/s burn at Jupiter.

But ofcourse the relationship between the Injection Δv at stage2 and the transfer Δv at stage 3 is completely different. A few m/s difference at the Injection burn can lead to great differences at the transfer Δv.
I hadn't completely understood this, but with this thread as an incentive I'm reading about it right now. Still havent found a definitive formula that can tell you "if the transfer Δv is x then the Injection Δv is y", but I'm understanding a lot more now.
There is much involved:the Vesc at the orbital alt. of the spacecraft, the V∞ and the orbital velocity of the planet around the sun. Cool stuff!

--------------------------EDIT---------------------------

I just finished a 2 hour Orbiter session, making a new plan.
I sticked to the same method as the first one (Titan→Jupiter direct) but in order to not have the same plane change problem again, I tried to find where to intersect with Jupiter for a Rinc ~0° at the time of the Injection burn. Sure enough, such an intersection existed, but the transfer was almost perfect Hohmann-like, meaning that I would have a low encounter velocity at Jupiter. The burn from Titan cost 1710 m/s.

Then, I tried to setup the slingshot to"hug" the planet getting all the benefit I could from Jupiter's mass and see how much Δv I still needed to make it to Earth. TransX showed that an additional 470 m/s would do the job, bringing the total Δv at 2180 m/s for a 2 burn solution.

Another great thing is that I finally figured out what the relationship is between the Transfer Δv and the Injection Δv and how to calculate both for any transfer I want, just with paper, pencil and a calculator.

Here is the plan: I have set "Plan : None" for stages 2 and 3, so it's from the burn on Titan all the way to Jupiter periapsis. I didn't setup the second burn, because it would be useless this early on, but I got the Jupiter pass pretty close to what it should be.

BEGIN_DESC
Contains the latest simulation state.
END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 56416.2193148669
  Script Challenges/DG/Titan_to_Earth/Challenge1
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship GL1
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET GL1
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 60.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE User
  MODE TransX
  Ship  GL1
  FNumber 6
  Int 1
  Orbit True
  Vector  -2136655.36963 1478782.93522 -2455060.1626
  Vector  1265.01380898 337.744273187 -896.971238311
  Double  9.0079965e+012
  Double  56416.2172139
  Handle Titan
  Handle NULL
  Handle NULL
Select Target
 0 Escape
Autoplan
0 0
Plan type
0 0
Plan
0 1
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 0
Select Minor
 0 None
Manoeuvre mode
0 1
Base Orbit
0 0
Prograde vel.
 4  1711.63837849
Man. date
 5  56416.2583371
Outward vel.
 4  30.016
Ch. plane vel.
 2  -19.645
Intercept with
0 0
Orbits to Icept
0 0
Graph projection
0 0
Scale to view
0 0
Advanced
0 0
Pe Distance
 0  3575000
Ej Orientation
 0  0
Equatorial view
0 0
Finvars
  Finish BaseFunction
  Int 1
  Orbit True
  Vector  1009897075.94 217413557.865 -614917080.991
  Vector  3879.29141782 -3549.86467356 6166.50027987
  Double  3.79401946049e+016
  Double  56416.2581949
  Handle Saturn
  Handle Titan
  Handle NULL
Select Target
 0 Escape
Autoplan
0 1
Plan type
0 0
Plan
0 1
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 1
Select Minor
 0 None
Manoeuvre mode
0 0
Base Orbit
0 0
Prograde vel.
 0  0
Man. date
 0  56416.2189338
Outward vel.
 0  0
Ch. plane vel.
 0  0
Intercept with
0 0
Orbits to Icept
0 0
Graph projection
0 3
Scale to view
0 0
Advanced
0 1
Pe Distance
 0  1205206717.9
Ej Orientation
 0  -0.300408514314
Equatorial view
0 0
Finvars
  Finish BaseFunction
  Int 0
  Orbit True
  Vector  -1.17199911827e+012 40800024618.5 -864098645122
  Vector  4364.2336372 -540.17938455 -6520.50233414
  Double  1.32750371142e+020
  Double  56416.4767715
  Handle Sun
  Handle Saturn
  Handle Jupiter
Select Target
 0 Jupiter
Autoplan
0 1
Plan type
0 2
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 0
Select Minor
 0 None
Manoeuvre mode
0 0
Base Orbit
0 0
Prograde vel.
 0  0
Man. date
 0  56416.2190053
Outward vel.
 0  0
Ch. plane vel.
 0  0
Intercept with
0 0
Orbits to Icept
0 0
Graph projection
0 0
Scale to view
0 0
Advanced
0 1
Finvars
  Finish BaseFunction
  Int 4
  Orbit True
  Vector  323324654597 -234068122347 -253684691110
  Vector  -1327.04855184 954.686636506 1049.35694484
  Double  1.26686534397e+017
  Double  57446.5193853
  Handle Jupiter
  Handle NULL
  Handle NULL
Select Target
 0 Escape
Autoplan
0 0
Plan type
0 1
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 1
Plan
0 0
Select Minor
 0 None
Manoeuvre mode
0 0
Base Orbit
0 0
Prograde vel.
 0  0
Man. date
 0  56416.2193144
Outward vel.
 0  0
Ch. plane vel.
 0  0
Intercept with
0 0
Orbits to Icept
0 0
Graph projection
0 1
Scale to view
0 0
Advanced
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View Orbit
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Finvars
  Finish BaseFunction
  Int 3
  Orbit True
  Vector  789398994190 -46799787761.2 53046643935.3
  Vector  -1000.0671476 -721.226873914 12399.3782396
  Double  1.32839126489e+020
  Double  59909.887841
  Handle Sun
  Handle Jupiter
  Handle Earth
Select Target
 0 Earth
Autoplan
0 0
Plan type
0 2
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 2
Select Minor
 0 None
Manoeuvre mode
0 0
Base Orbit
0 0
Prograde vel.
 0  0
Man. date
 0  56416.218672
Outward vel.
 0  0
Ch. plane vel.
 0  0
Intercept with
0 0
Orbits to Icept
0 0
Graph projection
0 0
Scale to view
0 2
Advanced
0 0
Velocity.
 5  7340.98380884
Outward angle
 4  2.65794655896
Inc. angle
 2  0.272131318092
Inherit Vel.
0 1
Eject date
 0  59907.4343
Finvars
  Finish BaseFunction
  Int 5
  Orbit True
  Vector  -3945838308 -6945590258.49 4808434098.82
  Vector  5576.82190804 9854.16787891 -6833.07034943
  Double  3.98600439969e+014
  Double  61115.6299976
  Handle Earth
  Handle NULL
  Handle NULL
Select Target
 0 None
Autoplan
0 0
Plan type
0 1
Plan
0 0
Plan
0 2
Plan
0 0
Select Minor
 0 None
Manoeuvre mode
0 0
Base Orbit
0 0
Prograde vel.
 0  0
Man. date
 0  56416.2042201
Outward vel.
 0  0
Ch. plane vel.
 0  0
Intercept with
0 0
Orbits to Icept
0 0
Graph projection
0 0
Scale to view
0 0
Advanced
0 0
Draw Base
0 0
Finvars
  Finish BaseFunction
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE User
  MODE TransX
END_MFD

BEGIN_SHIPS
GL1:Deltaglider
  STATUS Orbiting Titan
  RPOS -1900329.67 1535222.80 -2609732.33
  RVEL 1337.312 283.766 -806.265
  AROT -27.89 -6.36 4.93
  RCSMODE 2
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:0.076579 1:0.029993
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  AAP 0:0 0:0 0:0
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END