Discussion Trees for Orbiter

[N_Molson]

Making trees as crossed textured flat meshes it's pretty good. In this case the maximum tree width should differ from the minimum by the square root of 2:

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That's how they render entire forests in DCS. And they sure look good enough, for a flight sim. Though I think they use another trick for the 'top' view, like another 'foilage plane' that behaves like a '2D sprite' of the old days.

The 'low poly' 3D approach works well with a 'cartoon-like' art style (a bit like the one we use on Space Station Designer), but as you say, it isn't really compatible with a 'full-realistic' style.

You did great work already, such trees would improve a lot the Earth surface bases visuals.

 

[misha.physics]

Thanks. Those 2D and crossed 2D trees have a number of disadvantages. They look good when we look perpendicular to their plane. There's a problem with shading, top view (we see a cross) and so on. But nevertheless I really don't see any better alternative yet (of course, it was not my idea). The main advantage of 3D cartoon trees is their volume, but they're much more difficult for texturing.

For now I don't know how to make nice forest in Orbiter, but a have a simple idea for 2D single trees, which are the good way if we can't look at them from different sides. We could place lonely trees in front of buildings, I'm going to try this.

Also, it wasn't a big work, because I didn't draw my own trees, I took free textures from the Internet.

Maybe we could create and texture the 3D models like these:

 

[N_Molson]

From what I can see in say DCS or FS, the trunk and a few main branches are a low-poly solid, but all the foliage is made of superposition of 2D planes that have different orientations.

It is obvious if you look at the top of this one (DCS) :

 

[misha.physics]

We could place lonely trees in front of buildings, I'm going to try this.

It doesn't look as good as I expected:



Look at the different contours of the tree against the background of the building and sky:

 

[Buck Rogers]

They don't look too bad, the masking could be better, the alpha fades to blue/white, black/brown would be better, or make the mask 1 px smaller.

 

[misha.physics]

Thank you.

the alpha fades to blue/white, black/brown would be better

Do you mean that the alpha channel fade to black/brown worse than to blue/white?

or make the mask 1 px smaller

Is it the only solution? And what does it mean? Should I reduce the texture resolution by half?

 

[LadyCroussette]

Well, it's probably best not to have too big textures if you intend to put multiple trees in a base (like to make a small patch of forest or something) because it could easily make a computer lag. I'd say either 256x256 or 512x512 depending on how close the trees are meant to be seen (so like 512x512 on the edge of a runway or next to a building, and 256x256 behind).

 

[Buck Rogers]

The "halo" effect is because the original background was too bright.

Is it the only solution? And what does it mean? Should I reduce the texture resolution by half?

I meant the alpha mask, res. looks fine if maybe a little high for gaming, what res. are they?
Where do you get your trees?
Or up the .dds and I'll see if I can improve the masking-
in photoshop fill bckground with dark colour, delete, make mask

 

[misha.physics]

what res. are they?

The tree textures were 1024 and 2048.

I attach an archive with the original PNG and DDS with MSH I created. Maybe you could try it (reduce resolution, improve masking, etc).

 

[LadyCroussette]

The tree textures were 1024 and 2048.

yeah, unless you plan to just have one or two trees, that's way too much lol

 

[Buck Rogers]

try these

 

[misha.physics]

1024 looks almost the same as 512, whereas 256 has more halo. 512/256:

 

[misha.physics]

Well, after all these I already think we should think about 3D trees. Maybe we don't need forests or even just a lot of trees. Several accurate 3D low poly trees could improve a base a lot, give good shadows and views from all sides. I tried the first model I found and I think the such concept is worth it:

 

[N_Molson]

Well, it's probably best not to have too big textures if you intend to put multiple trees in a base (like to make a small patch of forest or something) because it could easily make a computer lag. I'd say either 256x256 or 512x512 depending on how close the trees are meant to be seen (so like 512x512 on the edge of a runway or next to a building, and 256x256 behind).

I'm not a GPU guru, but AFAIK graphic cards are quite good at 'duplicating' a same texture (and then scaling it, etc...). So, if you use 3 or 4 different textures for a forest, it shouldn't be a huge issue. Now things can escalate quickly if you model something like an international airport, of course.

 

[Buck Rogers]

I think they look pretty good. If you have some trees that look like these, I can try to emulate this historic photo in the Viking launch .scn (btw eagerly watching your island grow!).

 

[misha.physics]

I think they look pretty good.

Do you mean 2D or 3D trees?

If you have some trees that look like these

Not yet, but I found a tree generator tool, so I'm going to try getting various trees.

btw eagerly watching your island grow!

For now this is just a testing ground for objects and textures. I'm not placing objects there in the right position yet.

I forgotten to make an alpha channel for a texture of this tree. Now it looks like:



Of course it has the same problem with the visible halo, although it's not so noticeable.

 

[LadyCroussette]

Looks nice without the alpha channel too lol

 

[misha.physics]

That's exactly I think!

 

[N_Molson]

I'd say the one without alpha looks like a bit like a tropical tree with large leaves, while the one with alpha is definitively from the northern hemisphere lol.

 

[Buck Rogers]

Do you mean 2D or 3D trees?

"3D" Altthough I think it's where you place them AFAIK "tree tops" are included in the elevevation data. Placing a row of 2D trees along a forest edge could improve the ground view.

Not yet, but I found a tree generator tool, so I'm going to try getting various trees.

Sounds interesting. Look forward to seeing the results of your experiments