Gaming Addon creators wanted , for an IOS space simulator.

[JCARRION]

I remember reading that recent implementations of the cortex support double precision operands in SIMD instructions. Not sure how much this applies to the iPhone. When Microsoft made the mutation ad against Linux, they should have better targeted ARM CPUs, it is pretty hard to find two different manufacturers that produce the same ARM CPU despite using the same standards.

different ARMS? .. that's our nightmare. Remember that we are also doing it for Android , trying to maximize the common code .

Anyway , if you get pen and paper you ll see that -using 0,0,0 as the suns' position ) ,and using meters , by the time you are on the earth , the accuracy for a float is several kilometers (impossible to render nothing : ) . Even with doubles , Jupiters' orbit accuracy would be out of whack by 100s meters.

Fixed point (and we are using 64 signed ,in meters , ) with and extra (12 bits ) for the model transfroms , gives us the entire solar system (up to SEDNA! ) , with accuracy of militeres. And surprisingly way faster than with doubles.

Pity that we have to re-write the entire Math lib on fixed point , probabbly the most boring task we;ve done in years

---------- Post added at 09:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------

50 Euro is expensive? God bless my rich customers!

50 Pounds = 70 Dollars an hour , 700 Dollars a day *before taxes* . Yep , in the UK that's a expensive salary to pay .

Not quite sure if the programmers rates in USA are way higher (nor lower ) . The only place there are cheap programmers is in India .. and to put it mildly , their code STINKS.

Out of curiosity : How much coders chage by the our in the States?
Cheers
J

 

[Urwumpe]

different ARMS? .. that's our nightmare. Remember that we are also doing it for Android , trying to maximize the common code .

Android? Even programming Android phones in Java is a messy affair, the iPhone is the better platform for now if you want security for hardware optimizations.

Anyway , if you get pen and paper you ll see that -using 0,0,0 as the suns' position ) ,and using meters , by the time you are on the earth , the accuracy for a float is several kilometers (impossible to render nothing : ) . Even with doubles , Jupiters' orbit accuracy would be out of whack by 100s meters.

The funny trick is Orbiters relative position strategy there... you use the closest celestial body as reference position and only work with your position relative to this body, while it moves around the sun or its planet. Thus the ~40 meters of inaccuracy in Jupiters position doesn't really harm, that is still less than the accuracy of the astronomical data.

Fixed point (and we are using 64 signed ,in meters , ) with and extra (12 bits ) for the model transfroms , gives us the entire solar system (up to SEDNA! ) , with accuracy of militeres. And surprisingly way faster than with doubles.

yes, that is something I can't deny there. I am more concerned about the more complex details of Orbiter there, a simple three body solution for Earth and moon works even fine in 32 bit fixed (2 million meters). But the rigid-body physics should be pretty complex without doubles, especially if you also include aerodynamics and non-spherical gravitation.

Pity that we have to re-write the entire Math lib on fixed point , probabbly the most boring task we;ve done in years

Smile, there are way more boring jobs than that. :lol:

 

[JCARRION]

Android? Even programming Android phones in Java is a messy affair, the iPhone is the better platform for now if you want security for hardware optimizations.

People would be surprised to learn that both iPhones and Androids can be perfectly programmed in compiled C++.

-I mean , with no hacks , tricks , rootings or jailbreaking - . Xcode and the Droid's SDK have the obscure -yet - functional option to code directly in "down to the metal" C++. -

 

[Urwumpe]

50 Pounds = 70 Dollars an hour , 700 Dollars a day *before taxes* . Yep , in the UK that's a expensive salary to pay .

Makes 63 Euro per hour then, that isn't really a high number for buying one hour of programmer from a service provider... of course not the salary of the programmer unless he is independent.

Not quite sure if the programmers rates in USA are way higher (nor lower ) . The only place there are cheap programmers is in India .. and to put it mildly , their code STINKS.

Can only talk about German conditions there... Outsourcing to Indian programmers is a usual topic, but that depends a lot on the project and customer. My customers for example have some special requirements, which means that most of our work can't even be outsourced to our slightly cheaper developers in Czech republic. Good programming is one thing, and if you are willed to pay an Indian programmer German salaries, you can also get good code from them, but if you also need...

• Programmer available on the phone during the normal business hours of the customer
• Programmer capable of speaking and writing German.
• Programmer able to arrive at the customer personally and work there together with engineers to apply finishing touches on the product.
• Programmer capable of understanding the demands and processes of CFD engineers.

... no Indian can really do the job properly. Or would sell himself for a really low price, that offsets one or two missing requirements.


Sadly, no manager, who wasn't a programmer before, really cares about the source code not meeting best practices and source code standards established within the company. if the Indian junk doesn't work, you buy more Indian junk, after all, European programmers make errors as well, don't they?

Out of curiosity : How much coders chage by the our in the States?

One number that I have found and is not an offer for Indian developers, says $55-$65 as typical range for the man-hour in software development in the USA.

---------- Post added at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 AM ----------

People would be surprised to learn that both iPhones and Androids can be perfectly programmed in compiled C++.

-I mean , with no hacks , tricks , rootings or jailbreaking - . Xcode and the Droid's SDK have the obscure -yet - functional option to code directly in "down to the metal" C++. -

I know, but that is then the old argument of "optimization vs platform independence". :lol:

 

[JCARRION]

One number that I have found and is not an offer for Indian developers, says $55-$65 as typical range for the man-hour in software development in the USA.

Well , same pricing than over here ,pretty much. Also ,app developpers tend to be on the maverick/ coding cowboys style . Dissaperaring from the project as soon as another more tempting contract arise ,etc..

Regarding indian code. .. I could tell you horror stories in the past .. like

1-> Programs commented on Punjab ( or whichever they speak there) , with non-ascii leters (unicode ?) that were non-renderable on a standard ANSI editor .

2->absurd, pointless , forced optimization of the monitor space ,. to fit as much as possible code in a 80x40 page.

3->Really obscure lines of tought . If you see their ordering algorithms , .. ok , they order , but they overcomplicate the whole thing for not simple reason .

4-Total dependence on global variables from a huge-static class. So you better get a 3rd monitor , to have that master static class on view .. your sanity deppends on that.

Basicly , 50-60-70 Euro /hour spent on a good programmer , that you can phone and attend , and speak to , and has a fine understanding on the machine's internals.... is much better spent than 10 hours on a piece of code , that most of the cases , issnt even worth the toner/paper to print it out .

Cheers

 

[Urwumpe]

LOL, don't remind me. I have also taken the responsibility for maintaining a few programs with classes in the 8500 SLOC range. Refactoring this feels like trying to level the alps with a spoon.

 

[RisingFury]

100 000 to 500 000 copies of your software sold? Aren't you being a bit optimistic?

I'd be surprised if Orbiter was downloaded that many times since it was first created and you have to keep in mind that people that use it often download it several times.

 

[dumbo2007]

There's plenty of unemployed guys in low-wage countries that will make your 10 meshes for only 10K, and call it the largest paycheck of their lives

hey now wait a minute !!
:lol:

 

[jedidia]

hey now wait a minute !!

It's not meant derogatory. If you do it clever, you can make a decent living with stuff like this. I considered something like it a few times as an employment project in Bosnia, where 70% of university graduates don't get a job, but I'm not living in the right city for that.

A job for 10K that can be done in a month by 10 people is still a proud wage there.

 

[dumbo2007]

hehe..yeah kidding .....the exchange rate rocks!.... sometimes

 

[N_Molson]

Anyway we need dumbo2007, our current best hope for terrain collision detection !

 

[JCARRION]

Screenshots and official web

www.space-simulator.com

cheers

 

[sitha241]

I think if it comes to android it will be the first app I will actually pay for )
good work

 

[Urwumpe]

BTW, about the calculations again, do you have similar capabilities in iOS that Androids have with Renderscript? I had some research this weekend, it is possible to have CUDA-like computation kernels defined via Renderscript, I am now looking into a fractal demo to test the speed of it. The GPU of the S3 isn't bad at all, when looking what MeshLab does.

 

[JCARRION]

Facebook project page , with some footage videos from an iPad 2.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Space-Simulator-IOS/358807170872088

 

[Loru]

Remember that you need NASA aproval for using their logo and other materials in commercial product/merchandise

 

[JCARRION]

good point ! .



I ll try to remove them. As I am not using textures for the spacecrafts , that would save us a lot of triangles !.

On the other hand , I would assume that the orbiters, landers , DSKYs , and the AGC's source code are public domain , isnt it ?

 

[jedidia]

As I am not using textures for the spacecrafts , that would save us a lot of triangles

errr... what?

 

[Loru]

good point ! .
I ll try to remove them.

No need to. Just go to NASA website - there is contact to guy who handles such things. All you need is aproval letter from NASA and you're good to go.

As I am not using textures for the spacecrafts , that would save us a lot of triangles !.

ET looks textured to me on this screenshot

... so do SRBs here:

 

[JCARRION]

Hey , Thanks for the NASA advice . I ll follow it!

regarding the models , I can assure you they are polygonals. Even the stars of the USA flag on the LEM are polygonal.

The reason being the limited texture memory for the ipad . We really need every byte of it for the planetary surface(s) . On the other hand , the ipad can cope with huge ammount of geometry - and given that most of the scenarios consists on nothing else than the spacecraft , the planet , and the fake stars.... It stills chugs along 30 frames per second.

As a curiosity , just the flags and the orbiter's names are 12.000 polys ! .

Cheers
J