Caltech Researchers Find Evidence of a Real Ninth Planet

[Gerdih]

Its this time again I have to go to Youtube Spanish conspiracy channels and try to put some order there, this time is Nibiru topic.

 

[sorindafabico]

Its this time again I have to go to Youtube Spanish conspiracy channels and try to put some order there, this time is Nibiru topic.

The perihelion is too big to be Nibiru.

 

[Gerdih]

The perihelion is too big to be Nibiru.

I know, I know. You wanna explain them? They will say elves gave some velocity to the planet so it doesnt pass near Earth, to hide from us, oh wait they don't know how orbital mechanics work. Hmmmm.. they used magic!!

 

[hutchison66]

Clyde Tombaugh was looking for a large planet that was theorised existed due to an unexplained disturbance in the suns rotation and happened on Pluto an idea was he just happened to be looking in that direction and by luck photographed Pluto also it has been noticed that every 10,000 years comets are disturbed from the Kupier belt and move into the inner system some thought due to another body disrupting their stability this might explain both these things Hope they still call it Nemisis

 

[Urwumpe]

also it has been noticed that every 10,000 years comets are disturbed from the Kupier belt and move into the inner system some thought due to another body disrupting their stability this might explain both these things Hope they still call it Nemisis

These periodicity in mass extinctions had been debunked so often in the past years by scientists, lets just drop it, OK? Also it had been a 27 million year cycle.

 

[Urwumpe]

Hi guys,

Any news of how possible that 9th Planet exists?

If I remember correctly, it was calculated as 3.8 Sigma, which means a 1 / 15000 chance that the next measurement will invalidate the hypothesis.

But that number was calculated by the scientists themselves based on measuring only six other objects. Not really something to spread confidence.

And coincidentially, their claimed planet is exactly in the tiny region of size and distance in which no astronomical detection would have been possible with available ground or space based telescopes.

 

[Quick_Nick]

And coincidentially, their claimed planet is exactly in the tiny region of size and distance in which no astronomical detection would have been possible with available ground or space based telescopes.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

Calling All Physics Experts!

Greetings all,

I am to write a paper on the benefits of sending a probe to supposed "Planet 9". The paper will attempt to convince the audience of the importance of spaceflight and discovery, especially of this new mystery planet. While that is all well and good, the first question to ask must be "is it even possible to send a probe to Planet 9?"

NASA says "the predicted orbit is about 20 times farther from our sun on average than Neptune (which orbits the sun at an average distance of 2.8 billion miles)." If this planet is on a 10,000 - 20,000 year orbit like this, and it takes us 9.5 years to get to Pluto, the question of time en-route to 9 would be quite a problem. (I have heard rumors of a powered slingshot around the sun which would accelerate this vehicle to 9 in as little as 20 years).

I would like to hear from this community if this feat can be done. My paper will only grace on why it should be done. Before I launch into the topic of my paper, however, I would like to know if a 20-year slingshot, or a similar maneuver with a relatively-short travel time, would actually work.

Thanks to Caltech for their work in the mathematical discovery of Planet 9. Thank you all for your support.

Cheers! Sam

 

[Urwumpe]

While that is all well and good, the first question to ask must be "is it even possible to send a probe to Planet 9?"

Simple: No. Not at all. We have no orbital parameters of this hypothetical planet. Only a region in space where it might exist. Where should the probe fly to?

So, another target would be necessary - for example: Could we place a telescope into the region where planet 9 is supposed to exist?

 

[Lmoy]

We have no orbital parameters of this hypothetical planet.

What data is necessary to determine the orbital parameters of a body? If photographs conclusively confirm its existence, would those be enough to calculate accurate values?

 

[RisingFury]

These kinds of papers pop up every so often and stir some debate. This time the evidence is a bit more convincing, but I'm still not a proponent of the idea.

Two main reasons:
- We have an incomplete data set on how many minor bodies there are. We might be missing huge swaths of real estate out there because we can't see them.
- Given that we've spotted these tiny worlds, like Sedna, how come something this large has gone unseen. I know that the orbit may be "far out" and that orbital bodies spend most of their time in the far zone, so it could be beyond our detection, but its size still works in its favor.


Looking forward to the results of the search, though. Would be exciting to see something this large gone unnoticed right beneath our noses.

 

[Urwumpe]

What data is necessary to determine the orbital parameters of a body? If photographs conclusively confirm its existence, would those be enough to calculate accurate values?

Not one alone, but yes. Enough observations by ground based telescopes would be enough by using Gauss (other) algorithm for calculating the orbit parameters.

Accurate is something else though at this distance.

 

[jedidia]

What data is necessary to determine the orbital parameters of a body? If photographs conclusively confirm its existence, would those be enough to calculate accurate values?

Photographs mean you can see it, so yes, you could get very accurate values from a few months of observation. The problem we have is that we don't have anything that can see it. We can estimate the orbital elements it would have if it existed and if it was about the size we theorise relatively precisely, but certainly not precise enough to nail it with a probe in real life (becaue even if it exists, the numbers are so large that "relatively precise" might turn out plus minus a few AU or so. That thing is scary far out!)

 

[Lmoy]

Astro mentioned a powered solar flyby might be enough to get a probe there within a reasonable timespan. I doubt that'll ever happen, at least within our lifetimes, but assuming it did, how would that work? Flyby Jupiter to lower the perihelion, and then a very high dV burn at perihelion to send it on an escape trajectory pointed more or less at where Planet 9 will be in 20 or so years?

I'm not especially familiar with super-long-distance interplanetary travel, but it sounds like a really interesting concept.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

Yes, when I said that about a probe mission, I had only heard one rumor. I think it was on Wikipedia, so it obviously wasn't 100% reliable.

So, it seems like it is pretty hard to get a probe to this planet. If it is really as far as NASA says it is, that would be quite a feat of interplanetary rendezvous to get the probe in optimum position.

Rising Fury mentioned that it is possible this planet may not even exist in the first place, which is an important point. I found the research PDF for the full physics of the matter at this URL: http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/0004-6256/151/2/22/pdf. Maybe this planet does not exist, but the abstract of this paper states that "in this work we show that the orbits of distant Kuiper Belt objects (KBOs) cluster not only in argument of perihelion, but also in physical space. We demonstrate that the perihelion positions and orbital planes of the objects are tightly confined and that such a clustering has only a probability of 0.007% to be due to chance, thus requiring a dynamical origin." Even if this is not a planet, or maybe it is more than one object, there just might be something out there causing this occurance. That's what makes the topic so interesting and mysterious.

So, we don't really know where exactly it is, or what exactly it is. I say that if we can get a relatively small margin of it's location, not perfectly accurate at all necessarily, that one could still send a probe. What about sending a telescope on this probe? It could search the entire area for this planet using this telescope, and even if it was off by an AU, it should be able to at least see the planet, right?

In short, if one were ever to send a probe to Planet 9, tremendous dV would need to be reached, there would not be a perfect envelope of accuracy, and the probe would need enhanced zoom-view capabilities. It's time for NASA to do the impossible . . . again.

Thanks

 

[Urwumpe]

If it is really as far as NASA says it is,

Not NASA. CalTech. Different organisations.

And have you really considered reading how absolutely inaccurate their own "prediction" of the planet is? It covers a region of space, that is much larger than the inner solar system.

And got to that prediction by ignoring 99% of all known Kuiper Belt objects.

 

[Astro SG Wise]

Roger that. I looked at a NASA report on the topic, so that's why I mentioned NASA momentarily. Looking forward to possible future discoveries of Planet 9!

Thanks All

 

[Kyle]

Astro mentioned a powered solar flyby might be enough to get a probe there within a reasonable timespan. I doubt that'll ever happen, at least within our lifetimes, but assuming it did, how would that work? Flyby Jupiter to lower the perihelion, and then a very high dV burn at perihelion to send it on an escape trajectory pointed more or less at where Planet 9 will be in 20 or so years?

I'm not especially familiar with super-long-distance interplanetary travel, but it sounds like a really interesting concept.

Somebody should give this a spin with TransX

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Somebody should give this a spin with TransX

http://xkcd.com/1244/

 

[Andy44]

http://xkcd.com/1244/

And if you hover the mouse there is a nice Easter Egg for Orbinauts.