Science Endless and free electricity generation : what's the trick ?

[N_Molson]

I just saw this video and something tells me that there is a trick and that it can't work. I don't see why you could generate (that much) power with nearly nothing. It seems far too easy. :nono:

Now I'd like to prove and have strong physical arguments, but I'm quite helpless with anything related to electricity and EM fields in general. :shrug:

Thanks for saving the children from ignorance ! A primary school teacher I know just posted this on her facebook page, it drives me mad and I have to stop this with mathematical evidence ! :beathead:

NB : this is in french but the guy isn't explaining how it could work, of course. At some point he says he uses an AC/DC 12VA converter in reverse fashion, which seems a complete heresy for the little I know about electricity. At the end he pretends he is using 3x 70W light bulbs, and that he could probably go easily to 1000W.

 

[Lmoy]

I don't know a whole lot about how this stuff works either, but I know that "endless free electricity" is a physical impossibility, violating a fundamental law of physics, conservation of energy. People who advocate for research into things like perpetual motion machines seem lack the understanding that energy cannot be created, only converted from and into other forms.

 

[N_Molson]

I don't know a whole lot about how this stuff works either, but I know that "endless free electricity" is a physical impossibility, violating a fundamental law of physics, conservation of energy. People who advocate for research into things like perpetual motion machines seem lack the understanding that energy cannot be created, only converted from and into other forms.

I'm 100% with you, but I really want to know the why in order to stop this madness.

 

[Urwumpe]

I see little solid there, so why bother at all? It is not possible to reproduce it by what I understand there.

 

[N_Molson]

Because an elementary school teacher I know is believing it works, and I don't want her to say the kids this is the solution to our energy problem. In the other hand I can't just say "oh, it violates the laws of the Universe", I need something a bit more solid, precisely.

 

[meson800]

I'm 100% with you, but I really want to know the why in order to stop this madness.

Go with the monetary argument.

If that was possible, then why do we plug in those computer fans at all? If that worked, don't you think computer manufacturers would just go with the cheaper method---put small magnets around the outside.

 

[N_Molson]

Yeah but even that doesn't work, the description of the video says "removed from Youtube, censorship ?". The guy publishing this pretends he is a genius and that electricity companies will never accept this "secret" to be made public. You know, that kind of stupid stuff.

To begin somewhere, there is a problem with Newton's laws of motion, I'd say ?

Well, even more with that stuff, but the thing that worries me is that the system isn't isolated in regard of Earth's magnetic field.

 

[Urwumpe]

Because an elementary school teacher I know is believing it works, and I don't want her to say the kids this is the solution to our energy problem. In the other hand I can't just say "oh, it violates the laws of the Universe", I need something a bit more solid, precisely.

Yes, but that is not YOUR problem. It is hers. If it really works, she can build another one. If it really works, she can also power something that you choose.

And if it really works, it can also work somewhere else or can be experimentally tested.

I think it is time to remember Sun Tzu here:

I will run, they will hunt me in vain
I will hide, they'll be searching
I'll regroup, they'll retreat
They'll pursue
Coup de grâce
I will win but never fight
That's the art of war

 

[jangofett287]

I'm pretty sure if you tried to put 210w through a fans wires they would melt, regardless of how you arrange the volts or the amps. I don't quite know enough to calculate those (just watts are not enough.), but those are really thin wires. They aren't going to carry 210w.

 

[Hielor]

At 4:39, he brings the 4th magnet close (but not even covering the screw hole) and the thing just starts spinning full speed.

At 4:53, the 4th magnet is already closer than it was at 4:39 when it started spinning, and yet it doesn't start turning until he spends some time "adjusting" it.

My assumption is that at that point the actual cord for the thing is going down his sleeve, allowing him to tilt it back and forth and show that nothing else is connected.

Later, before he puts it down, the camera is stopped and restarted. After this, he tilts it around a little bit, but not as much. At 5:54 (below and to the left of the center of the fan) and briefly at 5:56 (above the center of the fan) you can see a hole in the table behind the fan. He sets the fan directly on top of this hole and never moves it after that. I assume the actual power cable for the fan is going through the hole from that point in the video on. Some of its behavior on the table after that definitely suggests it's "anchored" to that spot.

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm pretty sure if you tried to put 210w through a fans wires they would melt, regardless of how you arrange the volts or the amps. I don't quite know enough to calculate those (just watts are not enough.), but those are really thin wires. They aren't going to carry 210w.

If you use high voltage and low amps, it could work. But guess what else happens at high voltage.

The resistance of copper wire is

[math] R= 0.017 \cdot \frac{l}{A}[/math]
So, if you use a small diameter and low amps, it is no big deal any more, the low resistance will not heat the wire much despite the high voltage:

[math] P = R \cdot I^2[/math]

 

[N_Molson]

Oh yes, of course I forgot to say that in France 220-230 VA AC is the norm for almost any domestic electric use. So the transformer he uses is designed to convert 220-230 VA AC to 12 VA DC, and he pretends to use it in a reverse fashion. This is clearly impossible, right ?

 

[jangofett287]

Another thing. If it really is a 12VA AC/DC transformer (proper name: rectifier) then it won't work backwards. Rectifiers work one way. To go the other way you need an inverter.

---------- Post added at 22:48 ---------- Previous post was at 22:44 ----------

Oh yes, of course I forgot to say that in France 220-230 VA AC is the norm for almost any domestic electric use. So the transformer he uses is designed to convert 220-230 VA AC to 12 VA DC, and he pretends to use it in a reverse fashion. This is clearly impossible, right ?

VA is Volt-Amps, which is equivalent to watts. Your supply is rated in just Volts.

 

[N_Molson]

Right he says exactly : "That's a 9 Volts transformer, I like to use a quite powerful one, its written 12 VA on this one, so it has some punch". Then he says the "engine" feeds the "transformer" with 12 Volts, so its quite unclear. I think he is not better at this stuff than I am.

 

[Urwumpe]

If he uses a rectifier at high voltage, the results should be "interesting" - diodes don't like blocking too much potential.

At breakdown, the diode is dying, unless it is a Avalanche diode, which can sustain a bit of this.

 

[N_Molson]

uuh yeah given that the graph stops at -52 V, I imagine that -220 gives a pretty mess. :blink:

 

[jangofett287]

Looking at the data sheet for a case fan, it's rated at 0.35A. So assuming we could put 0.5A through the wire, (its probably more than this, but nvm) to get to 70W we'd need 140V. Running this backwards through the transformer, assuming you could, would yield 3570V, 0.0196A. 3.5KV, 19.6mA. I highly doubt a bulb designed for 230V, 0.3A is going to work. It's fake. Proof by contradiction.

EDIT: A 70W bulb at 230V draws 3.3A not 0.3, I got the equation the wrong way round. Doesn't change the result.

 

[N_Molson]

Thanks guys, problem solved. Though it does not explain why the "Earth magnetic field-fed fan generator" is impossible, the "inverted rectifier" is a clear no-go, and that was enough.

 

[paddy2]

At the 4 min mark the real power lead is held in his bunched fingers under the fan.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Well, the video won't play here at work (blocked), but...

I can push something, or cause something to be pushed around with magnets. But to get current you have to have a conductor, a magnetic field and relative motion between them. As the conductor passes through the magnetic lines of flux, current flows (ish, long story and you really don't want to know it).

At that size pictured, really all you can do is little novelty tricks. To really power something with any size to it (say an airconditioner, or better yet a toaster) you'll need to generate a lot of current, and that little hand held "generator" ain't gonna cut it.