News Firebomb Attack on German School

Moonwalker

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German police have arrested a teenager who attacked pupils at his Bavaria school with petrol bombs and an axe.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8260427.stm


[RANT]
This makes me really angry meanwhile. Those events are going to be no individual cases anymore. We obviously have to reckon that such things might continue to happen in future, and that more often than before.

There was also two teens who killed a pedestrian at a train station in Germany just a few days ago.

I realize a loss of authority within our modern "civilized" societies. There is a growing lack of respect against the police, against teacher, against fellow men, against the entire society. I have to agree to the German journalist Peter Scholl-Latour, who says there is a noticeable brutalization within our socities for some decades. Humans need discipline. I always was in favour for gender segregation and school uniform even when I still was at school.

I tend to call the loss of authority a side effect of capitalism, modern "free" western societies in which anti-authoritarian has become a meaning. The kinky mass-stultification and overstimulation by our modern media contributes as well. Plus incapable parents, who are mostly interseted in their work; also a side effect of capitalistic systems.
[/RANT]
 

Urwumpe

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To rant once more: Once such a thing happens, the pseudo expert Christian Pfeiffer is appearing in TV, despite not being able to say more than is usual hate talk against modern culture.he got is ScD for finding out that teenagers who are not in school are having time to commit crimes. His celebrated victory. he did not even find evidence that these teenagers do more crimes in the free hours they have more - but that was his celebrated interpretation. And today he is touring the media with his claims about music and computer games, which are based on "scientific" research done by his sister.

And Moonwalker: To rant you right back at the Munich case: The real problem is something else. There had been enough people around to give these teens the beating of their life. Instead, they had been permitted to beat&kick the poor guy for 2 minutes in full public without anybody stepping in.

We are cowards. Tiny spineless cowards. That is the problem.

And if you have been for gender segregation and school uniforms, I have to say that you are just one of the cowards - or aren't you afraid of woman or afraid to be individual?
 

SiberianTiger

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I tend to call the loss of authority a side effect of capitalism, modern "free" western societies in which anti-authoritarian has become a meaning. The kinky mass-stultification and overstimulation by our modern media contributes as well. Plus incapable parents, who are mostly interseted in their work; also a side effect of capitalistic systems.

Totalitarism is not a cure against crime. Any authority imposing his order a person must abide, will fail if the person is morally corrupt. I think it's best for your society to cherish more respect to the traditional Christian values when upbringing your kids. And let them play less bloody video games. Seriously.
 

T.Neo

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There is a growing lack of respect against the police, against teacher, against fellow men, against the entire society.

That disrespect has always been there. It's just that it's being shown more nowdays.

Humans need discipline.

No. They need to be taught self-discipline.

I always was in favour for gender segregation and school uniform even when I still was at school.

I can see no legitimate reason as to why genders should be segregated in schools. That's utterly backward and, IMO, sexist.

Forcing children to wear school uniforms is utter nonsense, IMO. What good can come of depersonalising and demeaning a child by removing their choice of clothing?

This isn't the armed forces, we're not turning children into soulless fighting machines. We're (attempting) turning them into responsible, moral citizens.

And let them play less bloody video games.

Although I am against allowing children to play gory videogames, I get tired about the "violent games cause adolescent violence" argument. If there is any correlation between school violence and gory videogames, it's that potentially mentally unwell/disturbed children are attracted to them.

For example, some people I know had real air-rifles as kids, and actually shot at other children with them.

And they're perfectly fine citizens today.
 

Eagle

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I actually don't think the problem is lack of respect for authority. Its more lack of self respect.

The kids who attack their fellow students know exactly what will happen to themselves soon after. Jail if they're lucky, death if they aren't. The fact is they don't care even for their own future and may have hoped for the finality of the later.

Its impossible to respect others if you don't even respect yourself.
 

SiberianTiger

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Although I am against allowing children to play gory videogames, I get tired about the "violent games cause adolescent violence" argument. If there is any correlation between school violence and gory videogames, it's that potentially mentally unwell/disturbed children are attracted to them.

Okay, not just videogames. I find almost everything I can occasionally watch on TV inappropriate for my 5 years old child. Especially news reports. Try to think about it, every time a child watches another car/air/train crash report, terrorist attack or criminal fighting video, this imprints in her the idea of cheap cost of a human life.

Surely, some gory videogames would not really damage more somebody whose brain got already crippled in a post-infancy... And for someone who had been kept safe of them at the proper age, they are simply of little interest.

This is a plain truism.
 

Omhra

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.....Pfeiffer is appearing in TV, despite not being able to say more than is usual hate talk against modern culture.......he did not even find evidence that these teenagers do more crimes in the free hours ......today he is touring the media with his claims about music and computer games..... "scientific" research done by his sister.

And Moonwalker: ....The real problem is something else. ....We are cowards. Tiny spineless cowards. That is the problem.

And if you have been for gender segregation and school uniforms, I have to say that you are just one of the cowards - or aren't you afraid of woman or afraid to be individual?

Yes...
Here in Utah we had a shooting at "Trolley Square"...
An "European" young man went inside the square and started popping-off rounds with a shotgun... he was able to fire some 12 times ( yes he reloaded... ) he shot a 15 year old girl (amongst many others) in a vicious way, he wounded her on the back and then walked behind her as she crawled into a store where he shot her in the waist first, pretty much segmenting her and finally on the face. This after he had killed her mother..
This is on the news but it was told to me by a first witness...

The point is not to indulge in gore... but to illustrate that the citizens hid and fled... left the guy to do as he wished... and abandoned a little girl and her mother and 8 others to get killed in a horrible way.
It wasn't until an off-duty police man was able to give him a fight... a good 5 minutes into the ordeal. Finally reinforcements got there and they killed him...

The media made me proud that day (very rare), that even tho the "white, European, man" was from the religion of Islam they did not parade the religion or screamed terrorist...


So while some like to blame the lack of military restrictions and lack of segregation, we should simply allow the freedoms that make free men remain free... arm them with bravery and a Colt... in New york, all these years back... on the station... where was the one lawful armed citizen to stop the gunman from reloading his hand gun 3 times while shooting at leisure?

Police will not save you... police is an "after the fact" reactionary force... Only "we" can protect us from ourselves...

Moonwalker;
Uniforms? Segregating women?

Now THAT is retrograde progression... And I refuse to believe you really think it would help anything....
Besides... out of some 300 million people... 1 or two go off every couple of years... it is tragic, but in perspective... it is very much a minor occurrence. If I "the public" was committed to stopping these few-but-terrible happenstances it would be better for all of us.


And playing video games is not so much a problem that is spawned on the type of game as the amount of time spent playing them... while neglecting other things.
So while some want government to censor the "type" of gaming, parents should simply limit the time spent playing... And do the censorship themselves...

Enough of this cry for government involvement to help you rear your child or protect you...
...darn people, grow smart NOT dependent ! gee...
 

T.Neo

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I actually don't think the problem is lack of respect for authority. Its more lack of self respect.

Well, school shooting are usually comitted by children who have been socially rejected and who possibly have mental disorders. As a "victim" of such social rejection, I can understand why children can commit such acts.

But it boils down to respect anyway: the fellow students, who did not learn to respect each other, and ended up causing the social rejection.

Especially news reports. Try to think about it, every time a child watches another car/air/train crash report, terrorist attack or criminal fighting video, this imprints in her the idea of cheap cost of a human life

So the answer is to shelter children from reality? That's a form of abuse, IMO.

You could look at it from the exact opposite point of view: every time a child watches another disturbing news broadcast, this imprints in him/her the value of human life, and why one must strive to avoid such events occuring.

And for someone who had been kept safe of them at the proper age, they are simply of little interest.

I was never kept "safe". Yet I had little interest in such games anyway.
 

SiberianTiger

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So the answer is to shelter children from reality? That's a form of abuse, IMO.

We limit children's freedom at nearly every step at the age I'm talking about, and this is called upbringing.

You could look at it from the exact opposite point of view: every time a child watches another disturbing news broadcast, this imprints in him/her the value of human life, and why one must strive to avoid such events occuring.

Exactly how? Let's assume you've just watched a news broadcast about an air crash. How are you going to strive against such event occurring to you?

I was never kept "safe". Yet I had little interest in such games anyway.

You might just be a bit too old.
 

Omhra

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Siberian Tiger;
As long as you keep the legislation OUT of my home or my way to raise my child you can do as you like with yours... But if you pretend to know what is best for my child and then proceed to advocate for government restrictions on my parenting because of your opinion... Then you are in the wrong...
I am advocating freedom for you to be as obtuse or plain as you'd like... I expect the same... If TV is so damaging for your children, or if you cannot explain to your child what it is he is seeing... then turn the tube off, sir.
 

T.Neo

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We limit children's freedom at nearly every step at the age I'm talking about, and this is called upbringing.

I never said anything about restricting freedom, I said sheltering from reality.

How are you going to strive against such event occurring to you?

That isn't the point: it's a moral excersise. It's the responsibility of the engineers and designers of the aircraft to prevent catastrophes.
 

Ark

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I realize a loss of authority within our modern "civilized" societies. There is a growing lack of respect against the police, against teacher, against fellow men, against the entire society. I have to agree to the German journalist Peter Scholl-Latour, who says there is a noticeable brutalization within our socities for some decades. Humans need discipline. I always was in favour for gender segregation and school uniform even when I still was at school.

I tend to call the loss of authority a side effect of capitalism, modern "free" western societies in which anti-authoritarian has become a meaning. The kinky mass-stultification and overstimulation by our modern media contributes as well. Plus incapable parents, who are mostly interseted in their work; also a side effect of capitalistic systems.

If the problem is capitalism, than your solution is...

stalin.jpg


?

It's so simple, the solution to the evil Western capitalist culture is totalitarianism and mass murder! That'll keep em in line! :rolleyes:
 

Moonwalker

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There is a noticeable brutalization within our socities, well, at least I'm able to observe this in Germany. Districts and schools get sordid, as well as bus stops. People, especially young ones, are quite mouthy, disrespectful and aggressive in a kind which is not comparable to earlier generations. I do avoid districts that I did not have to avoid 15 to 20 years ago. And I do not take a train at all anymore for years. I take the bus although it does take 15 minutes more to reach downtown (the district I live in is a clean and calm one with a minor percentage of foreigners, and so the people wihtin the buses are unlike that ones who cross the district by train...).

There are certain reasons that people and teens became disrespectful and wacko in an extremely noticeable way over the last 25 to 30 years. Nobody can denie that school - spree killing also is new and happens quite often meanwhile. And the reason is not just violent video games, or that people are just cowards. It's altogether. The society changed markedly to an anti-authoritarian "**** off"- life style. Additionally there is a kinky overstimulation by media (30 years ago an advertisement poster showing a women peeing somewhere in the bush while "enjoying" a cigarette was unthinkable just as one example). TV programs have become lowbrow and yukky by about 90%. It's mostly becoming something like FOX-TV style which makes me feel to need a psychologist after only a few minutes of watching (it's like taking a pill which creates mental cinema). Plus our teachers and parents, who do favor kuddly-pedagogics like almost anybody and anything within our society. Humans definately need discipline. I'm happy that I grew up experiecneing discipline and at least Catholic schools (although I don't "believe", but those schools did not "hurt" at all, quite the opposite).

Regarding gender segregation: My sister was on a grammar school for girls. The differences were significantly, at least for that certain school. She also definately favours gender segregation still (and for her son in future) which I can quite understand. I wich I had that too. Just like an old friend who was on a boys' boarding school and does not regret it at all as well.
 
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SiberianTiger

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If TV is so damaging for your children, or if you cannot explain to your child what it is he is seeing... then turn the tube off, sir.

So I happily do. Instead, I'll go to the shelf and give the kid a right to choose any of the 100>.. DVD's which are appropriate for children to watch. Mostly old cartoons and movies about people who present good moral standards.

She is free enough. Free to choose favourite kinds of entertainment, to pick friends, free to educate, free to know about every aspect of love. Free to do anything which does not jeopardize her physical or mental security. On other hand, uncontrollable watching a TV MAY damage a kid's mentality.

If you believe that a person should be free to do anything he or she wants since stopping wearing a diaper, don't complain if you get ambushed by a gang of young thugs... one night.
 

Moonwalker

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If the problem is capitalism, than your solution is...

My solution would be a school reform and media control - an ethical commission especially looking at sexual and criminal descriptions as well as avoiding stupid-tv (make commercial television 100% pay-tv) as much as possible and replace it by science and education. People want stupidity because they just get it like never before. It's there, mass-enfeeblement, available 24 hours a day (while at night anybody, even the young ones, can watch advertising for sex-hotlines).

Capitalism is not bad on the whole. But those Coca-Cola societies suffer from side effects -> overstimulation and a conception of freedom that seems to be almost infinitely and turns into a "**** off" life motto. We've lost discipline in schools and within the public (probably those crazy middle class persons, called the 68's, contributed significantly). If we don't change some things, we'll see more violent disorder, especially at schools which already happens.

EDIT:

Oh, and TV is not just like "turn it off if you don't like it". Those who make TV have responsibility. In Germany public television does take it seriously more than
commercial television, who acts basically capitalistic by looking at numbers and target groups and do anything for money just like prostitutes.
 

Moonwalker

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:rofl:


Siberian Tiger...
I am not complaining...
...but only against those who would take freedom away for the sake of (perceived) security...

It depends on how people define "freedom". Most seem to think it's almost endlessly and comes without responsibility. But it doesn't.

I'm not talking about security. I'm talking about loss of respect and discipline. And I'm talking about wrong "control" by media. Media is controling peoples life style, thinking, opinion and much more like never before. The problem ist that media is controling it on its own hugely.
 

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And let them play less bloody video games. Seriously.


I'd start with banning guns. There's absolutely no evidence that violent games cause such events. There are plenty of countries that don't ban violent games, yet don't have kids shooting up their schools.
 

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I'd start with banning guns. There's absolutely no evidence that violent games cause such events. There are plenty of countries that don't ban violent games, yet don't have kids shooting up their schools.

I'd start with taking kids to a shooting school. Teach them some responsability. We allow kids from 10+ to our shooting ranges, and they don't shoot up their schools. I'd say that kids at those ranges are unusually serious and concentrated.
 
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