Ideas for VSAs (And suggestions)

[Zachstar]

Did you start a VSA with big plans with hopes of lots of people joining and participating and all that?

Well the simple fact is VSAs are not as popular as they once were. And your VSA stands about a 90 percent shot at failing before it's first anniversary.

There is a reason for this in my view. If you think for even a moment you are going to get insulted by any of this. Just hit the back button because it aint pretty!

First and foremost in my view starts with basics. If you think you can even approach such as SimNASA or the old VUSSP with a site on freewebs or any of these other free web hosts you are in for a world of fail because not one has worked right. Want to know why? Because HTML tempates and editing with notepad went out years ago. (BTW speaking from personal experience. Running a VSA from a Wiki is FAIL as well.. Just FYI)

Second. Simulating prior real life space missions is boring ESPECIALLY if you have no means to actually track it online and end up with a "Space Blog" It has been done TIME AND TIME again! People watch NASA clips when they want to get their Gemini or Apollo fix... How about simulating somthing new?

Third.. The public needs to be involved. Nobody gives a flying hell that you are putting up a station if you ignore their thoughts about it. Their tips and their experiences.

Now I am not just going to walk away after throwing that bag of words. I have some suggestions that may or may not assist in your efforts to restore greatness to the VSA community.

Idea #1 Has anyone considered MySpace? First and foremost it has a huge community that will just surf it and getting people to atleast see it will not be too difficult. Also with the gallery and video functions.. You will have the media advantage. Besides! You may find lots of people that will give Orbiter a try and maybe actually participate in ops!

Idea #2 Fantasy Missions! And by fantasy I do not mean just jumping in a DG and saying "LOOK I GO TO MARZ!!1111!" I mean a different take on current manned and unmanned programs. For instance look at Velcro Rockets [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3388"]Velcro Rockets v1.1[/ame] You will notice such crazy things as Delta 2 with larger SRBs.. Proton with R7 boosters and other interesting designs. Look further and you get more crazy stuff like Delta 2 SRBs on a Titan 2.. [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1031"]CVEL Titans v1.34[/ame] My point is. Why launch a boring Delta 2 mission to Mars when you can launch a shuttle mission to launch an Orbiter and lander towards the moon? There are more ideas I can come up with and will share them later in the topic.. Just remember. Originality draws interest!

These are a few of the ideas I have decided to share just to help the VSA community. Which I have seen drop in quantity and quality over the years. Be different!

 

[Arrowstar]

Go ahead and check out the two recent Astra Space posts (http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6146 and http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6051), I think you'll find I'm doing something completely different from the norm, and have been for some time.

Also... I built the AS website completely in notepad, every PHP function, every MySQL query, everything. So don't knock it quite so fast, it's a nice little program.

 

[Jarvitä]

Question: Without a released orbiter multiplayer functionality implementation, what's the point of a VSA?

 

[Usquanigo]

Question: Without a released orbiter multiplayer functionality implementation, what's the point of a VSA?

Well, I suppose it could be a form of multiplayer, handled on another side. Sort of like a PBEM RPG, of sorts. Plus that way you don't have to do all the work yourself.

If someone (or group) were to centralize, track, and update all the statuses of everything, then the work that anyone else did could be added to the "current state" and all on-going missions would be based on that current state. So that each player would see the work other players had done.

Like most other things we've seen so far, it's a hack, working around the existing limitations to make something work, even if it's not perfect.

Although, there is a major flaw, which is direction. Everyone would have to agree to go in the direction chosen by the central group or person, whether they be driving it dictatorally or taking input - not only that, in the case of input, everyone has to agree to how it's done. Lots of issues there. Can see how that would fall apart right-quick.

 

[Arrowstar]

The great part about Astra Space is that the 'direction' you mention, Bloodyspray, is handled by groups of pilots that organize themselves. So, don't like what your current leader is having you do? Fine, either go solo or start a new flight group. With AS, it's that simple.

Now you're right, because without OMP it IS a bit of a hack. But it's a bit of a hack that can easily be imagined, especially if you look at it from an RPG/RP sense, which is what I'm trying to do with Astra Space. You fly, you socialize, you do whatever you'd like. Your major activities, such as flights, ARE tracked by the central system and recorded. You earn awards or other honors from these activities. The only difficult part is handling Orbiter itself. You either need to develop a system that generates SCN dynamic files and updates everything (VERY hard, I've tried it), or you have a 'base' SCN file and have the players add what they need and then pass it around when they're done, leaving in whatever the the next person needs to complete his/her mission. In this sense, you're right, it is rather like PBEM, but until OMP comes out, I see no other real alternative.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Second. Simulating prior real life space missions is boring ESPECIALLY if you have no means to actually track it online and end up with a "Space Blog" It has been done TIME AND TIME again! People watch NASA clips when they want to get their Gemini or Apollo fix... How about simulating somthing new?

You're almost suggesting that no one will ever use NASSP, AMSO, Project Gemini or Mercury. It works just fine when you are able to have multiple people involved. (such as with TeamSpeak)

Idea #1 Has anyone considered MySpace? First and foremost it has a huge community that will just surf it and getting people to atleast see it will not be too difficult. Also with the gallery and video functions.. You will have the media advantage. Besides! You may find lots of people that will give Orbiter a try and maybe actually participate in ops!

I've thought about it, but it seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[Brad]

Did you start a VSA with big plans with hopes of lots of people joining and participating and all that?

Well the simple fact is VSAs are not as popular as they once were. And your VSA stands about a 90 percent shot at failing before it's first anniversary.

Amen! When will they learn... never.

Second. Simulating prior real life space missions is boring ESPECIALLY if you have no means to actually track it online and end up with a "Space Blog" It has been done TIME AND TIME again! People watch NASA clips when they want to get their Gemini or Apollo fix... How about simulating somthing new?

I would disagree with this. SimNASA most popular moments were when we recreated the early spaceflights of Gemini/Apollo. The problem is keeping interest after that. Shuttle missions are ok, but the vast majority of users IMHO are not interested in STS flights that basically do nothing but service the ISS...etc...

Third.. The public needs to be involved. Nobody gives a flying hell that you are putting up a station if you ignore their thoughts about it. Their tips and their experiences.

Depends if the "users" know what they are talking about. It is a matter of opinion.

Idea #1 Has anyone considered MySpace?

And you thought a free website was bad.....

Idea #2 Fantasy Missions! And by fantasy I do not mean just jumping in a DG and saying "LOOK I GO TO MARZ!!1111!" .........Look further and you get more crazy stuff like Delta 2 SRBs on a Titan 2..

Hummmmm... I agree, but like you suggested, there is a ton of stuff out there that you could used on Orbithangar. Of course it doesn't hurt to know a bit about development yourself. I have found by sad experience that if you depend on someone to do something for you, about 98% of the time you are going to be left hanging. You have to be able to develop at least something yourself.

 

[Usquanigo]

The great part about Astra Space is that the 'direction' you mention, Bloodyspray, is handled by groups of pilots that organize themselves. So, don't like what your current leader is having you do? Fine, either go solo or start a new flight group. With AS, it's that simple.

Now you're right, because without OMP it IS a bit of a hack. But it's a bit of a hack that can easily be imagined, especially if you look at it from an RPG/RP sense, which is what I'm trying to do with Astra Space. You fly, you socialize, you do whatever you'd like. Your major activities, such as flights, ARE tracked by the central system and recorded. You earn awards or other honors from these activities. The only difficult part is handling Orbiter itself. You either need to develop a system that generates SCN dynamic files and updates everything (VERY hard, I've tried it), or you have a 'base' SCN file and have the players add what they need and then pass it around when they're done, leaving in whatever the the next person needs to complete his/her mission. In this sense, you're right, it is rather like PBEM, but until OMP comes out, I see no other real alternative.

I was actually trying to extol it's virtues.

I wasn't slinging insults by calling it a hack. Heck, buildings and what little 3D terrain has been tried is also a hack, and thank god for it too. Anything that expands the built in capabilities or works around existing limitations in ways other than by using a pre-existing API (as it was *meant* to be used) is by definition a hack. But that part doesn't matter, what matters is the result.

And you're absolutely right that, without OMP it's the only way, and that it does (well, 'can' - that depends on who's running things and how they are doing it) provide a bit of RP to everything, making it more into an ongoing game.

I've seen stuff like this develop even in online combat sims, which ARE OMP.

 

[Arrowstar]

I was actually trying to extol it's virtues.

I wasn't slinging insults by calling it a hack. Heck, buildings and what little 3D terrain has been tried is also a hack, and thank god for it too. Anything that expands the built in capabilities or works around existing limitations in ways other than by using a pre-existing API (as it was *meant* to be used) is by definition a hack. But that part doesn't matter, what matters is the result.

And you're absolutely right that, without OMP it's the only way, and that it does (well, 'can' - that depends on who's running things and how they are doing it) provide a bit of RP to everything, making it more into an ongoing game.

I've seen stuff like this develop even in online combat sims, which ARE OMP.

Ah, well thank you for the slightly veiled complement then.

What I'm trying to provide for folks is a new framework that they can use Orbiter in and give them a chance to be creative about it. I wanted it to be flexible (ie ad hoc Flight Groups) but also have a focus (ie awards, etc). I'm also steering away from the tradition VSA in that while I consider the folks who sign up my 'employees' and subject to the basic rules of the organization, there isn't much of a traditional chain of command. People are largely free to do what they will, and as long as they abide by certain rules that are primarily good netiquette, go have fun. I will have Directorate leaders whose job it is to help provide further focus to the pilots in their command and also to help steer new folks in the right direction, but other than that, most of the 'governing' has been left out or left to the pilots themselves.

The way of the old, rigid VSA is largely dead, and it's time to move on. I really do hope that Astra Space can provide some of that movement.

 

[Zachstar]

Go ahead and check out the two recent Astra Space posts (http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6146 and http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=6051), I think you'll find I'm doing something completely different from the norm, and have been for some time.

Also... I built the AS website completely in notepad, every PHP function, every MySQL query, everything. So don't knock it quite so fast, it's a nice little program.

I have looked at your VSA and indeed you may have something there! I hope you will hold it together! I personally do not have much interest in anything DG era but I am sure a few here do.

Question: Without a released orbiter multiplayer functionality implementation, what's the point of a VSA?

VSA does not equal a bunch of people flying around in DGs They center around working different aspects of a single flight or multiple missions.

Amen! When will they learn... never.



I would disagree with this. SimNASA most popular moments were when we recreated the early spaceflights of Gemini/Apollo. The problem is keeping interest after that. Shuttle missions are ok, but the vast majority of users IMHO are not interested in STS flights that basically do nothing but service the ISS...etc...



Depends if the "users" know what they are talking about. It is a matter of opinion.



And you thought a free website was bad.....



Hummmmm... I agree, but like you suggested, there is a ton of stuff out there that you could used on Orbithangar. Of course it doesn't hurt to know a bit about development yourself. I have found by sad experience that if you depend on someone to do something for you, about 98% of the time you are going to be left hanging. You have to be able to develop at least something yourself.

Brad it is an honor to see you here after I managed to get myself kicked out of the SN dev area

Myspace is much better than a free web host. And I would rather see someone try it first than go for another failed VSA made from a freewebs template.

I think SimNASA is a different class of VSA but yes shuttle missions to a virtual stations are boring. However what about a shuttle mission to lob dual lander/orbiter to mars on a Centaur G? That would atleast give an interesting space blog. And with the tools we got these days it is easy to get people involved with the mission!

As for the average VSA. This topic was made in the hope that a few will learn. Heck Brad you have to admit having atleast some basic competition will help the VSA community as a whole eh?

 

[Arrowstar]

I have looked at your VSA and indeed you may have something there! I hope you will hold it together! I personally do not have much interest in anything DG era but I am sure a few here do.

VSA does not equal a bunch of people flying around in DGs They center around working different aspects of a single flight or multiple missions.

Thank you! I agree, a VSA can't just be a bunch of people hopping around in DGs. The hardest part of running a VSA is coming up with things for people to do. This is why I've rather delegated that functionality to individuals and to Flight Groups and their leaders. People can do what they want then, RP their own storylines, etc. I've tried to make it realistic in that there are restrictions on how you can use your vessels and whatnot, and other things, but most of it is left to the pilots themselves.