Discussion Interactive VR cockpit

stealthstar

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I seriously hope someone creates interactive VR cockpits for all spacecraft in the next update for orbiter. It would make the game far more enjoyable. A VR cockpit is just useless eye candy in most spacecraft. Huge bummer to. The Apollo AMSO really needs it to. AMSO has one of the best looking VR cockpits but I cant activate any of the buttons switches or knobs. They just sit there mocking me (LOL) The ones that have some cockpit interaction are very limited in some spacecraft. I bring this up because of how interactive Microsoft Flight Simulators VR cockpits are compared to orbiter.
 

paddy2

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No small job then... knock it out in a few hours...
 

Quick_Nick

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MS FSX: ~$50 (times some hundred thousand purchases)
Orbiter: Priceless

You should look around at addons with working switches (NASSP).
To get even the functionality of Dan's DG IV took years and I believe hundreds of thousands of lines of code. In part possible through sales of another project of Dan's.

As far as interactive 3D cockpits, I haven't seen many, and don't think they are usually practical.
Dan's Arrow should have a very nice one though.

For addons where there are already working switches in 2D, it's not necessarily unreasonable to extend that to 3D. But I don't think it usually makes sense.

And specifically for AMSO, there's not much functionality to be had. It's heavily automated and not focused on internal realism of subsystems. NASSP however is. Though your previous posts don't make you sound likely to bother with anything realistic anyways.
 
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Urwumpe

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I seriously hope someone creates interactive VR cockpits for all spacecraft in the next update for orbiter.

A virtual cockpit is the domain of the add-on developer and has to be made for a special spacecraft by the add-on developer of that spacecraft and involves programming either C++ or Lua code for handling events and animations. You develop a spacecraft and you decide which user interface it has. You have to know the spacecraft, have access to its source code - then you can make a VC for it. You can't make a one VC for all - like often done in MSFS with all the insanity that follows.

And next: Making a VC is a very hard job. Have you ever made one?

I couldn't. I know how to make a bad one, with lots of time and effort, and those wizards who can make a good VC have my earnest deepest respect.

How old are you, that you constantly ask what others can do for you? Shouldn't you ask, what you can do for Orbiter? :tiphat:

And if you want to see a great VC... look at SSU.
 
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HarvesteR

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Having done those DVCs for Flight Simulator (wow, that was 10 years ago now... now I feel old), I can tell you first hand just how much work goes into making even a basic one, let alone one that lets you interact with it.

The problem with virtual cockpits is that, unlike an external model, well, first is the fact that you need to model it from the inside out, which may sound like it wouldn't matter but it does make a difference, and most importantly, unlike an external model which maybe takes up at most 50% of the screen (the rest being scenery), the VC is a full-enclosure model, which will take up well more than 80% of the view space, if there's a window in sight, and up to 100% towards the back walls and other directions. You can't look away from the interior, you can only look towards other areas of it, so every surface needs to look good.

That means your internal model needs to hold its own under close inspection to a much higher degree than an external model. If you zoom in too closely on an external model and start to see where the detail ends, you usually instinctively know it's time to pull the camera away. On an internal mesh however, that's not an option. The threshold for quality (the point where it doesn't look flat out terrible) is much higher on an interior model, as you can't rely on the scenery.

What more, usually cockpits and such environments are crammed full of equipment, gauges, buttons, knobs, levers, cabinets, lighting fixtures, vents, wall paneling... And to make it look habitable and less dry, you also have to include some 'ambience' details, like signs of human presence (we are messy creatures), like papers, notes, containers, general signs of wear and tear.

On an external model, a lot of these details would also apply, but if they're not there, it's usually acceptable. On an internal one though, on a good internal model, if those 'props' aren't there, you'll get the feeling something isn't right. Like I said, the threshold for quality is higher.

This is why most addons have no interior meshes of their own, and we can't fault the authors for that. They really are a LOT of work, and I'm not even getting into the extra work of making those interiors interactive. That's a whole other can of worms, since compared to the relatively simple task of drawing and simulating input on a 2D instrument panel texture, making instruments in 3D, and clickable 3D buttons and knobs, is a whole order of magnitude in difficulty. Let alone even when you have to mix 3D gauges with 2D graphics, like MFD screens. I'd call those 5D gauges actually, because apart from the 3D space the screen itself occupies (XYZ), you also have to render the graphics themselves in another 2D canvas (UV), so you've got 5 spacial dimensions to handle there (thankfully the second set doesn't have to be orthogonal to the first three, hehe).

And here's the fun part, this is all just to develop an eye-candy interior model, even with animated clickable bits, if you really want your buttons, knobs, gauges and screens to actually control stuff in the ship, then you have to get down to programming their functionalities, for each and every clickable thing, since they are each supposed to be doing something, otherwise there wouldn't be a switch there.

This is probably quite long a post already, sorry if it sounded a bit harsh, I don't mean to lecture here, just to inform of the many factors that go into the making of an interior cockpit view for a flight sim. As you can see, it's a LOT of work. :)

All that said though, there are quite a few addons with wonderful interior models however, and props to all those who put in the effort to make them!


Cheers
 
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Hlynkacg

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I seriously hope someone creates interactive VR cockpits for all spacecraft in the next update for orbiter. It would make the game far more enjoyable. A VR cockpit is just useless eye candy in most spacecraft. Huge bummer to. The Apollo AMSO really needs it to. AMSO has one of the best looking VR cockpits but I cant activate any of the buttons switches or knobs. They just sit there mocking me (LOL) The ones that have some cockpit interaction are very limited in some spacecraft. I bring this up because of how interactive Microsoft Flight Simulators VR cockpits are compared to orbiter.

Speaking as a developer, implementing a fully interactive VC is very time consuming in terms of coding, modeling, and processor overhead. I don't blame anyone for taking the easy way out, especially when none of us are actually getting paid to do this. Unlike the developers of FSX.
 

n122vu

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Speaking as a developer, implementing a fully interactive VC is very time consuming in terms of coding, modeling, and processor overhead. I don't blame anyone for taking the easy way out, especially when none of us are actually getting paid to do this. Unlike the developers of FSX.

Not to mention that not every addon plane created for FSX has a virtual cockpit. Granted, most made in the last few years have them, but there was a long time where it wasn't guaranteed to be included with an aircraft, especially free ones whose developers opted to do photoreal 2D panels instead.
 

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Another addon that really needs a VR cockpit overhaul is the XR2 Ravenstar addon. It does look cool but there's a bunch of screens that all display the same map image that has no function. Interactive buttons in the XR2 VR cockpit would make using it far more enjoyable and easier like the famous delta glider. I get taking the easy way out when creating an addon but if you spend that much time working on an addon like the XR2 Ravenstar inside and out, an interactive VR cockpit would typically be expected. The Arrow freighter is big and must have took allot longer to create than the XR2 yet every button in the VR cockpit has a function. I sure do hope someone takes the time to update the XR2 with interactive MFDs & buttons. Ironically though the XR2 VR cockpit is one of the best looking but least interactive.
 

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The Arrow freighter is big and must have took allot longer to create than the XR2 yet every button in the VR cockpit has a function. I sure do hope someone takes the time to update the XR2 with interactive MFDs & buttons. Ironically though the XR2 VR cockpit is one of the best looking but least interactive.

1.) Size of the ship doesn't determine time spent on meshing/texturing and coding. Shape, detail level and feature list determine this.

2.) VC has to be modelled with active functions in mind (separate meshgroups for buttons, MFDs, other displays etc etc. In XR2 it is not the case.

There are at least 2 possible solutions for this (assuming you want to keep currrent look of it) but both have some problems with it:

1. You can edit existing VC adding needed elements like buttons, MFDs etc. and modyfing textures to match your changes but that poses some problems:

- Mesh is copyrighted - you'll need permission from creator of XR2 (Steve "Coolhand" Tyler) to modify and release it.
- Mesh is encrypted - you'll need unencrypted version of it.
- Assuming you have that, dbeachy1 have to agree to code it.

2. You can re-create VC from scratch using screenshots as reference and implement it as VC (VC can be separate file than main vessel). Problems:

- Much harder & time consuming to do (if even possible)
- If you make it look like original XR2 VC you'll still need permission from Coolhand as it's not real life aircraft cockpit you're modelling but his own creation.
- Again dbeachy1 have to agree to code it.

---------- Post added at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 AM ----------

Or you can go "business" way with it and just order it. I'm not sure how much Coolhand and dbeachy1 are charging for workhour though. :p
 

ADSWNJ

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Another addon that really needs a VR cockpit overhaul is the XR2 Ravenstar addon. It does look cool but there's a bunch of screens that all display the same map image that has no function. Interactive buttons in the XR2 VR cockpit would make using it far more enjoyable and easier like the famous delta glider. I get taking the easy way out when creating an addon but if you spend that much time working on an addon like the XR2 Ravenstar inside and out, an interactive VR cockpit would typically be expected. The Arrow freighter is big and must have took allot longer to create than the XR2 yet every button in the VR cockpit has a function. I sure do hope someone takes the time to update the XR2 with interactive MFDs & buttons. Ironically though the XR2 VR cockpit is one of the best looking but least interactive.


I think that you are being hugely disrespectful to Douglas Beachy and his addons, which rank as some of the most amazing pieces of code in this simulation. You appear to have the wrong impression about this environment, if all you wish to do is press buttons or complain about other people's freely-given work. You presumably have no idea of the thousands of hours that Doug has had to commit to make those vehicles.

I suggest you gets some humility and start treating those in this community with some respect, or you will quickly make yourself unwelcome around here.
 

stealthstar

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I think that you are being hugely disrespectful to Douglas Beachy and his addons, which rank as some of the most amazing pieces of code in this simulation. You appear to have the wrong impression about this environment, if all you wish to do is press buttons or complain about other people's freely-given work. You presumably have no idea of the thousands of hours that Doug has had to commit to make those vehicles.

I suggest you gets some humility and start treating those in this community with some respect, or you will quickly make yourself unwelcome around here.

I understand. There was no disrespect intended. I was pointing out the fact that the XR2 is already completed and has been out for sometime now so it would be cool if someone (like Douglas Beachy) took the time to make an interactive VR cockpit for the XR2. Don't get me wrong I love the work he put into the XR2 but I would say its time for an update that includes interactive VR cockpit features or maybe as an addon for the XR2 downloaded from the Altea Aerospace page.
 

Loru

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I understand. There was no disrespect intended. I was pointing out the fact that the XR2 is already completed and has been out for sometime now so it would be cool if someone (like Douglas Beachy) took the time to make an interactive VR cockpit for the XR2. Don't get me wrong I love the work he put into the XR2 but I would say its time for an update that includes interactive VR cockpit features or maybe as an addon for the XR2 downloaded from the Altea Aerospace page.

As far as I know Doug is currently involved in Orbiter core developement and is coding new addition to the fleet (XR3 Phoenix) which will have some VC features implemented.

xr3-blue.jpg

VC-01.jpg
 

jedidia

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As far as I know Doug is currently involved in Orbiter core developement

What, there's people besides the Doctor involved in core development? I didn't know that...

Anyways, about the XR2: A fully interactive cockpit was actually planed and in development, but then the graphic artist who made the visuals of the XR2 kinda vanished. DBeachy only does the code... he gets others to do the models (And there's kind of an unspoken agreement that it's considered an honor to get to model for DBeachy, because he's guaranteed to turn your visuals into to something totally awesome that everyone in the community will play with. Appart from DanSteph, no developer here is able to make such a claim). So while most of the code for the VC would actually be here, the meshes are not. That's the kind of things you get when everyone is doing this stuff just as a hobby.
On the bright side, you still get totally awesome stuff for free. It's really hard to beat that.
 

stealthstar

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As far as I know Doug is currently involved in Orbiter core developement and is coding new addition to the fleet (XR3 Phoenix) which will have some VC features implemented.

xr3-blue.jpg

VC-01.jpg

Looks awesome! Cant wait to try the XR3 when it comes out.
 
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jedidia

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Probably because it has an amazing cockpit, but without proper documentation only the most patient and expierienced pilots can make heads and tails of it... ;)
 

Urwumpe

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Probably because it has an amazing cockpit, but without proper documentation only the most patient and expierienced pilots can make heads and tails of it... ;)

Never had a problem with that aspect. But 90% of the cockpit is still only for the show, after ascent, it gets a bit boring.
 
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