McCain Chooses Palin as Running Mate

[replicant]

Now I have seen it all

Perhaps all the talk of her daughter is payback. Remember, this is the party that got the worst buch of criminals ever "elected" to our highest offices on the premise that they are the moral party of Jesus.
Putting all partisanship aside, it boils down to a few real issues. Can I feed and shelter my kids? Can I get them healthcare? Can I do these things by bargaining as an educated professional, or will I have to beg as a peasant in a feudal theocracy? Indeed, who answers the phone at 3am is very important.
Have we not learned our lesson about ignorant isolated religious Governors? I would rather have a one term Senator that a 20 term governor, especially of a backwater state. By the way, Chicago alone is about 10 Alaskas. Fox news has claimed that she has foreign policy ability because of her proximity to Russia? Come on, that's like me stating I could run a police crash unit because there are gangs living down my street.
I am from Idaho, I am no liberal by any means, in fact I hate all of these stupid sound bite labels. I am a working professional, who doesn't want to end up bucking hay because it's the only job left after we turn into an ignorant feudal kingdom with every decent job overseas over something as stupid as abortion and gay marriage.
It's not too late for McCain, he could still get my vote if he does three things:
1. Drop Gidget the beauty queen theocrat
2. Pledge to leave social security alone. It is insurance, NOT an investment.
3. Publically apologize to every American for George Bush, stating what a humilating piece of waste he has been globally, intellectually, and every other way possible.
I doubt he will do any of these things, therefore, Obama as the most likely candidate to stop him, will get my vote.
One final thought that I appeal everyone to please consider and understand. I beleive in The lord and his son Jesus. A utopia run by Jesus himself is wonderful, beautiful, paradise. A theocracy run by man's twisted version of god is an obscenity! History has proven it so time and time again. I shall oppose theocracy and champion the separation of church and state until I draw my last breath. I cannot understand how extremist evangelicals don't get the difference in these two orders.

Stop the feudal theocracy NOW!

 

[Ghostrider]

A utopia run by Jesus himself is wonderful, beautiful, paradise.

Dude, anything ran by Jesus himself would sound like a cross between Rivendell and the Hamtaro Clubhouse. :lol: Too bad He doesn't seem to like to rule.

 

[Messierhunter]

Urwumpe
Now she made public that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant, after rumors had already been around, that she was actually the mother of Trig

I think, that's just what you get, when you do your election campaign, in the US way, by presenting the family.

Wrong. Never before in the history of politics has a canidate's children been attacked like this as viciously or as quickly. In fact, it's been an unwritten rule in politics that you leave the family out of it unless they interject themselves into the game by giving speaches of their own, which are then fair game. Her daughter has done nothing of the sort. You don't seem to have any problem with this below-the-belt tactic though, and don't even seem to have a problem repeating the world's most unlikely rumors and conspiracy theories regarding the Palins. Like a 17 year old is a good suspect for a downs syndrome mother?! But hey, if it can score even a single political point, why not? Who cares if it's the least bit likely or not? Apparently, being pro-life and living what you believe to what others would consider to be to your detriment is an excuse to invade your family's private life and hurl false accusations against you in an attempt to destroy what you stand for. Keep it up, it's just making more and more determined to vote for Palin.


-----Posted Added-----

Well, anyway, the story about Palins pretty late pregnancy with Trig is also not without doubts, as she literally had the birth between two appointments...

Wow, I guess you'll throw sanity out the window if it serves your interests. Ok, explain this photo then:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30076181@N02/2814199887/sizes/l/
She looks pretty pregnant to me. But hey, the rumor's already out there, good job Urwumpe. I'm sure it will continue to fester in the minds of the easily deceived, just like the moon hoax, in spite of hard evidence to the contrary.

 

[dougkeenan]

In fact, it's been an unwritten rule in politics that you leave the family out of it unless they interject themselves into the game by giving speaches of their own, which are then fair game. Her daughter has done nothing of the sort.

McCain joked about Chelsea Clinton because she gave a speech?

 

[Messierhunter]

McCain joked about Chelsea Clinton because she gave a speech?

Chelsea has injected herself into her family's politics, including during the current election cycle. Or perhaps you could come up with an alternative explanation for these photos?

That said, I hardly think a joke rises to the same level as what has been said in the last 72 hours about Palin's children.

 

[Urwumpe]

Instead of reacting directly to Messierhunter's personal attacks... (There are people on this forum, who make one not only proud of the ignore function, but also about the Mid-Atlantic Rift)

McCain joked about Chelsea Clinton because she gave a speech?

Also, don't believe that the candidates present their family just so. It has a meaning for the voters, otherwise they won't do that. If the families are capital during the election, and they are also of course target of the usual attacks, when they show to be a weak spot to be exploited. But you don't exploit this by finger pointing.

Kerry's family was just as attacked by the fifth column of Bush/Cheney (of course) as Bush/Cheneys family by the democratic thugs.

And Obamas family was also not without attacks already - does somebody remember the republican reactions to Michelle Obamas speeches?

If you don't want to have your family in the spot light: Don't present them. Be proud of them, she that you have friends and family, but don't let be your weapon in the campaign. The voters finally vote for you, not for your family.

 

[dougkeenan]

Chelsea has injected herself into her family's politics, including during the current election cycle. Or perhaps you could come up with an alternative explanation for these photos?

Those photos are from Hillary's campaign, not 1998. Chelsea was 18 when McCain called her "ugly" (even though I don't think she is).

That said, I hardly think a joke rises to the same level as what has been said in the last 72 hours about Palin's children.

I haven't been paying attention. Personally I don't joke about children but my values may be different.

 

[Messierhunter]

I haven't been paying attention. Personally I don't joke about children but my values may be different.

I wasn't paying attention in 1998. Could you cite the quote by chance?


-----Posted Added-----

Instead of reacting directly to Messierhunter's personal attacks...

Last I checked, soundly disproving a conspiracy theory was not a personal attack. But hey, if you can't deal with the evidence, there's always the iggy button.

Kerry's family was just as attacked by the fifth column of Bush/Cheney (of course) as Bush/Cheneys family by the democratic thugs.

I seem to recall Kerry also trying to make political hay of Cheney's lesbian daughter. I do not recall any attacks of Kerry's family, aside from pointing out his wife's previous marriage and how she inherited her fortune. I don't recall it being much of an "attack" per se.

And Obamas family was also not without attacks already - does somebody remember the republican reactions to Michelle Obamas speeches?

I guess you ignored me before you even read what I wrote. I recall saying that the rule is that injecting yourself into the campaign, especially by giving speeches, makes you fair game. What else do you expect? Complete immunity of those giving speeches if they're family members?

If you don't want to have your family in the spot light: Don't present them. Be proud of them

Right, because tossing them in the closet is the way to be proud of them. Sounds to me like you're trying to rewrite the rules midgame to your advantage. Politicians have always been expected to present their families: I can't imagine what nutty rumors would start if a canidate hid their family altogether. If you were being intellectually honest you'd agree with me.

 

[Ghostrider]

Chelsea has injected herself into her family's politics, including during the current election cycle. Or perhaps you could come up with an alternative explanation for these photos?

Only one comment: she shouldn't copy Michelle Trachtenberg's hairstyle.

 

[replicant]

It's dirty, but it's been done before

I agree that attacking the daughter and children is bad politics. I care about the issues, and about who runs this vast and culturally complex machine called the United States.
I seem to recall the right had no problem four years ago when John Kerry was "swiftboated" in attacks that were all lies. A perfect example of how once the rumor is floated, it is impossible to stop. To be honest, I am not crying if the rumors and sound bites are working against the very people who relied so heavily upon them four years ago.
If we want to ignore issues and make it about character, Obama has something to offer there as well. After graduating he did not take a lucrative job(at least not right away as many of his classmates did) and chose to help those in the South side of Chicago hard hit once again by corporate greed. This was not the South side of Wasilla, AK, but the South side of Chicago, a place that many of the big money Jesus people in their guard-gated feudal communites would consider hell.
It has been said that Obama had better not attack on the experience level. Lets look at the facts :
Obama has twenty years of experience as a leader, community organizer and constitutional scholar. He has Eleven years of experience in elective office. He spent eight years in the Illinois Senate, four years in the US senate, three years as a community organizer. He worked for a civil rights law firm specializing in neighborhood economic development, he taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago and has also worked as a financial analyst. He is also an accomplished author. Obama’s record as a senator is impressive, he has served on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the Committee of Veterans Affairs, the Committee for Health, Education Labor and Pension and the Committee of Homeland Security and Governmental affairs. He has sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress (15 of which have become LAW). He has introduced amendments to 50 bills (16 were of which were adopted by the Senate). These bills reveal the decency of his character: Energy Efficiency and Climate Change (25 bills); Health care (21 bills) and public health (20 bills); Consumer protection/labor (14 bills); The needs of Veterans and the Armed Forces (13 bills); Congressional Ethics and Accountability (12 bills); Foreign Policy (10 bills); Voting and Elections (9 bills); Education (7 bills); Hurricane Katrina Relief (6); The Environment (5 bills); Homeland Security (4 bills); Discrimination (4 bills)
Palin has been a governor for less than 20 months and previously served as the mayor of a small town of 6,500, Wasilla, whose headline news samplings range from the winner of the local 79 pound cabbage contest to an altercation at the local intersection. Oh yeah, she also served on the PTA. This is a person quoted to say, “I haven’t really focused on the war in Iraq…” or the classic, “I don’t know what a VP does.”
Apples and oranges.
Obama's resume sounds better than Bush's was, and apparantly, he was "ready" to lead. (yeah, right)

 

[dougkeenan]

I wasn't paying attention in 1998. Could you cite the quote by chance?

I don't care to repeat it, and I am no fan of the Clintons. Here try: google McCain Chelsea joke

I won't repeat his comment about his wife either. (In case you weren't paying attention to that either, use "trollop" in your search.)

 

[replicant]

by the way

By the way, what's up with April 2008 and 2 posts? I have been around here since December of 2004. I almost feel insulted

 

[Urwumpe]

By the way, what's up with April 2008 and 2 posts? I have been around here since December of 2004. I almost feel insulted

Different forum... The old M6 forum still exists as archive.

 

[Messierhunter]

I agree that attacking the daughter and children is bad politics. I care about the issues, and about who runs this vast and culturally complex machine called the United States.
I seem to recall the right had no problem four years ago when John Kerry was "swiftboated" in attacks that were all lies.

A) That was directed at the CANIDATE
B) Please prove "they were all lies."

To be honest, I am not crying if the rumors and sound bites are working against the very people who relied so heavily upon them four years ago.

Yeah, I think that about sums this nonsense up. Libs don't care if insane conspiracy theories are thrown at a 17 year old girl because, after all, a bunch of veterans lied about their service and their warcrimes in 2004.. Even if they weren't wrong about the SWBV, they're still using the logic that a wrong justifies an even greater wrong. How nice.


-----Posted Added-----

I don't care to repeat it, and I am no fan of the Clintons.

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."

That's it? Tasteless yes, but I think it's kinda disingenous to compare this *joke* to outright lies and conspiracy theories about a 17 year old. I wouldn't be so worked up right now if all they had said was something like "Why is Trig Palin retarded? Because George Bush was his father" - equally tasteless, but it's nowhere near as bad as trying to spread an actual conspiracy theory about Trig. Now don't get me wrong, McCain should be reprimanded for involving Chelsea in his joke, I just do not find the infraction to rise to anything approaching an equal level. And hillary? Sorry, fair game, she involved herself heavily in the politics of her husband's administration and tried to use that as a resume for her presidential bid; you can't have it both ways.

 

[replicant]

Labels again

B) Please prove "they were all lies.".

I would be wasting my time and energy since you believe what you believe

Libs don't care if insane conspiracy theories are thrown at a 17 year old girl

Labels again. I don't get the penchant for our culture to want to reduce everything down to sound bite "no-brainer" labels. Have we drank too much beer? are we too lazy? Too much "Sesame Street" Too many years of backward thinking politicians who play guitar and try to look hip and trendy? I doubt you want to hear my definition of the formerly good word of "conservative" that has been erroneously appropriated by bloodthirsty bigots who are not conservative with my money nor their whacked out ideology.

equally tasteless, but it's nowhere near as bad as trying to spread an actual conspiracy theory about Trig. Now don't get me wrong, McCain should be reprimanded for involving Chelsea in his joke, I just do not find the infraction to rise to anything approaching an equal level.

I couldn't agree more, insulting a little girl who chose to risk getting herself knocked up is nothing in comparison to impugning the war record of a man who put his very life and health in harm's way in service to his country. Whether I like John McCain or not, I would NEVER insult the man on what he sacrificed and RISKED sacrificing, as did John Kerry.

 

[n0mad23]

Does anyone remember the attacks on McSame the last time he ran for prez? Sorry gang, it wasn't the Demon-crats that time. Pretty vicious stuff, too. Total lies.

Doesn't it seem like it comes down to "who's got the dirtiest hands?"

 

[Urwumpe]

There are people, who give conservatives a bad name... radical agitators would be more suitable. After all, it does not mind for them WHO somebody really is, as long as he is of the right party.

If the same would have happened to a liberal candidates daughter, the conservative reaction would be shouting "A lack of morals! And this bunch of people want to lead the country?". If it happens to a conservative... "Oh, the poor kid" (As if you can regard it a kid from this point on). Bigots.

They should take a phase of reconsideration, looking how much power has corrupted them. Where do their morals apply? Not for them it seems. At least, from McCain, I would expect a statement against torture, but I doubt he is really stronger than the other bigots in his party.

*rant over*

 

[Andy44]

Well, it's a fact that Chelsea had attractiveness issues back when Bill first took office, but she was just a teenager with the usual teenager clearasil issues. But I have to say, she is quite the babe in this photo. When did this happen? Good for you, Chelsea.

 

[movieman]

If the same would have happened to a liberal candidates daughter, the conservative reaction would be shouting "A lack of morals! And this bunch of people want to lead the country?". If it happens to a conservative... "Oh, the poor kid" (As if you can regard it a kid from this point on). Bigots.

This is equivalent to Chelsea Clinton claiming that she's found God, wants to ban abortion and will never even think of sex until she gets married... I'm not sure the Republicans would be using such behaviour against Hilary (OK, she quit the race, but if she was still a viable candidate).

If Palin had beaten her daughter with a stick any time she thought about sex, the liberals would be whining that she was denying her daughter's right to get pregnant by any man she chooses at any time; but because her daughter is pregnant, she's now evil for not preventing it. Kind of silly, don't you think?

I'm no fan of McCain or Obama, Palin seems like a busbodying schoolmarm, and I'm appalled by the thought of any of them being elected, but this is just another example of mindless liberal hypocrisy.

 

[replicant]

Empathy

I empathize with those of you who say you are bitter and angered with the attacks on Palin's daughter, I truly do. In fact, I really do share your anger and frustration.

Do you know what really makes me feel the kind of disgust and bitterness we are talking about here? It comes from seeing the most inept bumbling fool in the History of this country make a mockery out of the constitution, the white house, education, the english language, faith, intelligence, and just about every other human convention. It comes from seeing the real top dog is a vice president who is beyond a doubt the filthiest profiteering scum to come along in a long time. Our VP is a "man" who would grind your children into hamburger and sell the meat for a profit.

The true bitterness and frustration comes from the fact that these individuals were not elected based on their merits, or their ability to govern, or even their ability to sound intelligent. They were elected on the premise that they are the moral party of Jesus, and the pillars of guess what? you were reminded here....drum roll.....PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Getting knocked up at 17 out of wedlock hardly signifies "personal responsibility" either for the girl herself, or the mother who "raised" her. If we want to talk hypocrisy..........

So no doubt you will forgive me, democrats, independants, and even some republicans, for jumping on that so hard. The wounds run deep.