McCain Chooses Palin as Running Mate

I hadn't heard about Anbar, thanks for pointing it out. I'm not sure who "your guys" are - someone saying the surge wouldn't work in the BBC?
 
I hadn't heard about Anbar, thanks for pointing it out. I'm not sure who "your guys" are - someone saying the surge wouldn't work in the BBC?

No -- Barak Obama and Joe Biden both unequivocally said last year that the surge wouldn't work:


That fact has been sent down the memory hole.
 
This one's rather weird, though: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html. According to the AP, US soldiers are supporting Obama's bid 6 to 1 over McCain, at least financially.

Hummmm I find that hard to believe.... As retired military, I would suspect that it is the otherway around....... Opps.... just saw it was "financially." Yea, I would believe that... that would be those in the officer ranks. I wonder how it figures for the enlisted person.
 
This one's rather weird, though: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080814/military_donations.html. According to the AP, US soldiers are supporting Obama's bid 6 to 1 over McCain, at least financially.

Holy freaking (&*(*&(*&(*7687&^%&89). Stop. Take a deep breath. That "news" was Daily Kos and DU fodder three weeks ago. Even they got embarrassed pushing it when ... wait for it ... they actually looked at the numbers.

Comrade Nomad. Take another look at the numbers and get back to me.
 

Naturally, I take anything the NYT has to say about McCain with great skepticism, but this list is relatively accurate -- for things it covers. But there's a lot that's not covered. One of the most important distinctions between the two is McCain's record on campaign finance reform. Bush never cared about the issue or, if he did, he aligned with incumbents in both parties who opposed it. Another important distinction is mcCain's support for federal funding of stem cell research.

And then there's the fact that McCain doesn't seem to be getting special, personal messages from the creator of the universe ...
 
Actually, campaign reform is a glaring omission from the NYT's list, and one of the few points I find I admire McCain for.

I still have real trouble seeing the man as a reformer.

BTW - as much as you'd love to label me a communist (Marxist, Maoist, etc.), I'm afraid you miss the mark as much as that last bullet missed me in Phoenix, Greg (1500+ miles).
 
BTW - as much as you'd love to label me a communist (Marxist, Maoist, etc.), I'm afraid you miss the mark as much as that last bullet missed me in Phoenix, Greg (1500+ miles).

Well it's 90% just rough play and kidding since, despite my better judgment, I seem to like you. As for the other 10%, that might be the subject of another post on your "sticks and stones" thread if I can muster the time and energy tomorrow or the next day.
 
Well it's 90% just rough play and kidding since, despite my better judgment, I seem to like you. As for the other 10%, that might be the subject of another post on your "sticks and stones" thread if I can muster the time and energy tomorrow or the next day.

It's what make the US worth defending, isn't it? I suspect you're having as tough a time pinning me down to an "easy read" as I do of you. You're a bright man, Greg. You surprise and delight me now with regularity.

You do your Jedi trial lawyer tricks and I do the academic agitator psychic tai chi. Pearls are never made without adding discomfort to the equation. Education's the same way. Just can't learn anything without at least a little discomfort.

I was actively recruited to attend Evergreen State University, but declined because I knew as an advocate of the 1st Amendment I'd be the only one willing to defend the neo-nazis.

And yes, I'm living in the Soviet Socialist State of Washington, so I can appreciate the humor. But a communist label carries even worse stigma than liberalism these days.

BTW - I was a great fan of William F. Buckley, Jr., and was really bummed about his passing. Just another little surprise for you.


Countdown to the spectacle - I will be tuning into the Convention with great interest again!
 
Carification

"Stop the feudal theocracy NOW!" Hmm, anything in this statement about america BECOMING a feudal theocracy... nope! You just said to stop it, not to prevent it. Stop equivocating, it's pathetic.

You meant this because I added a word to it and then you forgot to add a word to the word I added so that proves it means what I tell the author it means? I wonder how well that would hold up in a court of law?

For clarity, Let me say this, the intended meaning of the statement is :

Stop the [Palin] feudal theocracy [onslaught] NOW!

As I understand proof, it needs to be explicit, not abstract. therefore an EXACT worded statement calling America itself this.

The original author has now clarified his statement. That leaves anyone who wishes to question the meaning only one choice. PROVE the INTENT of the statement to mean anything else.

Good luck with that.


-----Posted Added-----


I am big enough to admit that I failed to be as explicit with the statement as I should have. I shall endeavor to be more explicit in the future.


-----Posted Added-----


Who else saw Palin's speech tonight? I found it interesting she mentioned the bridge.

"During her first speech after being named as McCain's surprise pick as a running mate, Palin said she had told Congress "'thanks but no thanks' on that bridge to nowhere."
In the city Ketchikan, the planned site of the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere," political leaders of both parties said the claim was false and a betrayal of their community, because she had supported the bridge and the EARMARK for it secured by Alaska's Congressional delegation during her run for governor." Reuters

"But as a small-town mayor and a governor Palin did not hesitate to embrace the federal earmark process, according to a Washington Post report by Paul Kane that shows Palin helped secure almost $27 million in projects for her tiny hometown of Wasilla, Alaska.
Among the spending projects Palin helped obtain through the earmark process: $500,000 for a youth shelter, $1.9 million for a transportation hub, $900,000 for sewer repairs and $15 million for a rail project, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan watchdog group, Taxpayers for Common Sense.
Palin, who was mayor of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002, directed the town (which then had a population under 7,000) to hire the Anchorage-based lobbying firm of Robertson, Monagle & Eastaugh (The New York Times notes that earmarks are "close to sacrosanct" in Alaska).
(Note: The Times put a number for Palin's earmarks for Wasilla at "more than $8 million.")
And during Palin's tenure as governor, Alaska requested 31 earmarks worth $197.8 million in next year's federal budget, The Los Angeles Times reports, citing the Web site of Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska), the former chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee."

Or am I being "Ignorant" again?

I wonder if Sarah Palin believes that shouting insults and labels makes things more true as well?
 
Really, honestly, do you have any knowledge about how internal party politics works in the US? Do you think there's a "smoke-filled room" of party bosses who control the candidates? That image might have been true, oh ... 70 years ago in the US. But it hasn't been since then ...

Well, do you think that the opposite is true? That the republican party does not try to put influence on the candidate they support? I would be surprised, if this aspect of party politics is not happening inside the USA.

Anbar province -- the absolute hell-hole crucible of the "Sunni triangle" -- lost without hope of redemption two years ago. If you didn't hear that news, it wouldn't surprise me, since objective analysis of news coverage of Iraq over the last six months demonstrates that it has become a back-page item. Funny how that happened ... As soon as things started going well there, it stopped being news.

Must be only in the US news. The Sunni triangle is still mentioned on a regular base in foreign politics magazines. Most small attacks only appear in statistics, but the bigger attacks are still in the news. People just get used and bored to the fact, that you have an attack every other day there, with the only improvement in Iraq being, that you have less attacks...slightly.

And I don't think that you can celebrate this retreat already as victory. The rest of Iraq is not pacified yet, and the terrorists are mobile. I wouldn't be surprised if they soon turn the province into a hell-hole again, and again... Actually, when looking at the general situation in Iraq, the better description would be cowardice, instead of a sign of a job done. Let the Iraqis die for their country.

As long as Iraq as whole is not stabilized, has not a working government and is not able to prevent a civil war itself - it is too early to retreat.

EDIT: BTW, I just found out some more about Palin's agenda (sure it has only limited effect when she becomes VP... but when the president would die, she would take over and you would have the responsibility). That she has no problems with drilling for oil in nature reservates and sued the US government for protecting polar bears as endangered species should be known and relatively boring for a space flight forum, but what about the fact that she is a creationist? She supports teaching the creation as equal theory to the theory of evolution. Which is, even with a lot of religious tolerance, fundamentalist.
 
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Well, do you think that the opposite is true? That the republican party does not try to put influence on the candidate they support? I would be surprised, if this aspect of party politics is not happening inside the USA.

Of course the party influences the candidates. But there have been two or three major changes in party political dynamics in the US in the last 70 years or so. The biggest one in living memory was the impact of the post-68 era. The situation is EXTREMELY complex and somewhat different between the two parties, but the basic situation is that the presidential nominee has a very large influence on party political dynamics, much more so if he (or she) is elected. Then, as a sitting president's power begins to evaporate when he becomes a "lame duck" (a great US political term -- I wonder what the equivalent in German is), his influence on internal party politics begins to erode pretty quickly. During that transition time (as the RNC is in now, and the DNC has been for the last 8 years), the actual party apparatus becomes very loose and open to a lot of influences.

One of the ironies of the current election cycle in the US is that McCain has been consistently opposed by the traditional power centers of both parties because of his continuing advocacy of campaign finance reform. That's a subject about which books have been written, so I won't try to deal with it here, but suffice it say that it is complex, controversial and that McCain, as the national political figure most identified with the issue, has had political allies and enemies in both parties and at every level from local government to the national level on the questions he's pushed to the front of the national agenda (when he can). All I can say about it that might mean something to an audience as broad as this forum is that anyone who claims to be an expert on the subject better have done a LOT of studying on it.

Must be only in the US news. The Sunni triangle is still mentioned on a regular base in foreign politics magazines. Most small attacks only appear in statistics, but the bigger attacks are still in the news. People just get used and bored to the fact, that you have an attack every other day there, with the only improvement in Iraq being, that you have less attacks...slightly.

And I don't think that you can celebrate this retreat already as victory. The rest of Iraq is not pacified yet, and the terrorists are mobile. I wouldn't be surprised if they soon turn the province into a hell-hole again, and again... Actually, when looking at the general situation in Iraq, the better description would be cowardice, instead of a sign of a job done. Let the Iraqis die for their country.

As long as Iraq as whole is not stabilized, has not a working government and is not able to prevent a civil war itself - it is too early to retreat.

Well, you and I shall have to agree to disagree on this one. I readily concede that there are still deep, deep problems in Iraq that have to do with the taboo subject of culture. But the improvement in the basic security situation is massive, not slight, and the Sunni tribal leaders' change in political orientation from supporting al Qaida and the ousted Baathists, and Sadr's loss of power (he's announced he's moving to Iran) are tectonic shifts in the Iraqi political landscape. The Iraqis now have an opportunity because of the surge that they literally have never had in their history.

As a domestic political matter, if the McCain campaign can just get the truth out to the American people about how the surge has worked, it will be a major mistake for Obama and Biden to not acknowledge it.

EDIT: BTW, I just found out some more about Palin's agenda (sure it has only limited effect when she becomes VP... but when the president would die, she would take over and you would have the responsibility). That she has no problems with drilling for oil in nature reservates and sued the US government for protecting polar bears as endangered species should be known and relatively boring for a space flight forum, but what about the fact that she is a creationist? She supports teaching the creation as equal theory to the theory of evolution. Which is, even with a lot of religious tolerance, fundamentalist.

First, if Palin were to become president and attempted to make some kind of national legal mandate to force the teaching creationism, I would soon go broke from donating to ANYONE who would oppose her.

Second, the issue of "drilling in nature preserves" is far more complex than your comment gives credit. As you know from things I've posted here before, a significant element of my law practice deals with technical and engineering aspects of the energy industry. Drilling and production technology today is orders of magnitude safer and cleaner than it was 20 years ago. The footprint of a drilling operation is minuscule compared to what it was when I first started working in the industry. If you take an inflexible position opposing exploration and production work on protected lands without some technical knowledge about how the work would actually be done, I'm afraid I don't count the opinion as having any real merit.

On a personal note, I regularly hunt in an area of Texas that has had massive gas field development over the last 40 years, and that a group I belong to spends a lot of time and money working to preserve. There has been almost no impact at all by the oil and gas production on that environment. Oh -- and don't get me started on the economics and politics of how that ecosystem has been protected. The hunting interests have been the number one activists and funders of the preservation effort in this particular KEY ecosystem for three generations. We rarely see any Greenpeace folks there.

Finally, polar bears are cute. No doubt. I believe Germany recently had a rock star polar bear, or something like that. But the politics of the very specific legal question of including a species on the endangered list is complex. Again, I'd caution against uninformed opinions on the subject.
 
Then, as a sitting president's power begins to evaporate when he becomes a "lame duck" (a great US political term -- I wonder what the equivalent in German is)...

Actually, it is just the same term in German, literally translated: "Lahme Ente". But the term is less common in German politics, mostly, because the backstage politics are more powerful here. Popular candidates are often the victim of party politics, when they start risking the balance of power inside a party. Just take for example Friedrich Merz, who was a raisingstar among German conservatives, but became killed in party politics for his biggest idea, his simplification of the tax system, which even got endorsed by the more conservative people among the political enemies. ;)




Well, you and I shall have to agree to disagree on this one. I readily concede that there are still deep, deep problems in Iraq that have to do with the taboo subject of culture. But the improvement in the basic security situation is massive, not slight, and the Sunni tribal leaders' change in political orientation from supporting al Qaida and the ousted Baathists, and Sadr's loss of power (he's announced he's moving to Iran) are tectonic shifts in the Iraqi political landscape. The Iraqis now have an opportunity because of the surge that they literally have never had in their history.

I would stay careful. What my information on Iraqis domestic politics is, is that the fighting between the dominant shias, the sunnis and the curds is not over yet, or by any means stable. Neither is Iraq save from any Iran intervention.


First, if Palin were to become president and attempted to make some kind of national legal mandate to force the teaching creationism, I would soon go broke from donating to ANYONE who would oppose her.

Well said, by why elect such a person at all,when her political position now already implies that she might require a really powerful opposition, when she could assume power. I always thought, the matter of the VP is only so important in the USA, because it really happened that the VP became president. In Germany, the deputy chancellor is a matter of the coalition building in the parliament, as we have only a very limited separation of power (It should be more in a working democracy, IMHO).


Second, the issue of "drilling in nature preserves" is far more complex than your comment gives credit. As you know from things I've posted here before, a significant element of my law practice deals with technical and engineering aspects of the energy industry. Drilling and production technology today is orders of magnitude safer and cleaner than it was 20 years ago.

The footprint of a drilling operation is minuscule compared to what it was when I first started working in the industry. If you take an inflexible position opposing exploration and production work on protected lands without some technical knowledge about how the work would actually be done, I'm afraid I don't count the opinion as having any real merit.

I think the theoretical improvements are not comparable to the practical implemented improvements. Look at the damage, Shell causes in Alaska in his upstart oil sand project, only for overtaking the company which is already researching oil sand extraction for 20 years. If you don't force and control the companies to be careful, they won't do that.

And it is far easier to damage a natural reservate, than to restore it. In germany, we have some experience with renaturalizing mines or border strips, and in the best case, you can have most damage fixed in ten years with lot's of money invested. Too much to do this more often than as a small experiment. Just not doing anything can also work, in about 50 years, when you have no toxic waste.

Which, in the oil drilling context, is impossible. Small spills happen all the time. If not of oil, than of contaminated water. Also, I remember that off-shore oilrigs also have some very nasty chemicals in use for preventing algae damaging their sub-surface systems.

So, you can drill oil for lowering the local US oil price for about 30 years. But this will very likely cause major damage to the natural reservates, because of direct chemical polution, constructions and traffic. When the oil is gone and you have no alternative, the price will be even higher, and you also have the costs for restoring a natural reservate.

Finally, polar bears are cute. No doubt. I believe Germany recently had a rock star polar bear, or something like that. But the politics of the very specific legal question of including a species on the endangered list is complex. Again, I'd caution against uninformed opinions on the subject.

It is actually not too complex. The definition of endangered does not always mean: Population is already close to extinction by natural events. Saying a species is threatened is mostly a warning for human behavior. And if all african farmers would sue their governments for protecting elephants...instead of just sueing them for the damage caused by elephants, which is more profitable... we would likely have no elephants left. And German fishers would still like shoot a large number of endangered species (beaver, otter, komoran), which they consider "food rivals".

And you should not investigate too closely to the German relationship to new-born animals. We are crazy in that context. Especially if the animal is a dangerous carnivore. We love it when it is small and cute - and become shocked when it starts hunting the trainer. There was a close visual relation between Knut (the polar bear in question) and Elvis Presley last summer... With the exception that the US government stopped paying Elvis after he left the Army.
 
Having watched Palin speak last night I must say my first impression of her was, for lack of a better word - impressive. The thought came to me over and over again that FINALLY someone who is an average American, who hasn't made a lifetime career out of politics might actually get to Washington and may do something.

She gave an excellent political speech. Although I am still waiting for the specifics on HOW the republicans plan to make change happen other than a bunch of "we are going to do this, that, etc..."
 
Let's look at what else is not there, "America". What feudal theocracy does that refer to?
What kind of idiot do you take me for? You were OBVIOUSLY talking about america. What's disgusting is your complete lack of honesty. Your entire post is one giant equivocation.
Now who is nuts? You said that I would have to prove they were ineffective war criminals to to make my case. By the way, has anyone considered that none of them were war criminals? Maybe they were just a bunch of guys payed a boatload of money to tell lies about John Kerry, who was in fact the one maligned.
Let me try one last time to get this through to you, this will be the last I say about this completely off-topic matter you derailed us to. If they lied about what John Kerry testified to, then they were war criminals because that's what Kerry testified his brothers in arms to be when he came back to the states. Either Kerry lied and they are not war criminals or they lied and they are war criminals. You said they lied about everything they said about Kerry, and that would make them war criminals if true. There is no other option, it's that simple.
Really. That's as bad as telling the lies? Was I supposed to stand and defend her?
Yes, because allowing lies to go on from your side right in front of you is tacit support even if you don't think it's true. You know it helps you so you ignore it. If you had any intellectual honesty at all you would have tried to stop the lies because it's not only the right thing to do, it's the only way to save any credibility your side might have.
Kudos to you. Again the whole burden of proof thing. That burden is not on you to prove her innocence, but on her accusers to prove guilt.
You must really think I'm a complete fool. Unlike you I do not let vicious lies about a 17 yr old and her family slide by just because the burden of proof should be on the accuser, I can and will completely dismantle the insanity in order to ruin the credibility of the accuser. You only wish I would stand by and shut up so that those lies could go on being told, doing their political damage with the easily deceived. I'm not that stupid.
First of all, I have not once insulted you or your intelligence directly.
As stated above you do it all the time, only you think you're clever about it.
You do not make much of a case in a debate with insults and labels.
I did not insult you. And the label fits.
I am willing to admit error on this one, but PROVE to me the statement about the Brother-in-law is true. From a credible source.
That last statement is your pathetic attempt at an "out" - you'll just denounce any source I provide as "uncredible" and disregard it. Here goes, please prove me wrong, I'd love to be wrong about this.

http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html
"Troopers eventually investigated 13 issues and found four in which Wooten violated policy or broke the law or both:
• Wooten used a Taser on his stepson.
• He illegally shot a moose.
• He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.
• He told others his father-in-law would "eat a f'ing lead bullet" if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce."

""Extreme verbal abuse & violent threats & physical intimidation," McCann wrote in her April 11, 2005, petition to the court. He had driven drunk multiple times, threatened her father, told her to "put a leash on your sister and family or I'm going to bring them down," her petition says. A judge issued a 20-day protective order to keep Wooten away."
 
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