Project Multistage2015 - Development Thread

gattispilot

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If you setup the scenario with the crawler does the pad appears properly and attached to the crawler? When you move the crawler does the pad move with it? Or does the crawler move around without the pad?


So how should I set up the scenario?

I add the crawler and the tower. But the tower is not attached

But I added a new crawler and it is attached. I guess I need to adjust the tower touchdown points as the tower is in the middle of the crawler
 

boogabooga

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Ok, thanks I'll check. Do you update the meshes as well? I mean you have among your meshes the meshname_3.msh?

:facepalm: my fault.

do you mean that if value is different from 0 and you put 0 in the dmd it remains the old value? Or that if you put 0 then you don't find anything in the ini file? If the latter that should be ok, since a non specified value will be assumed as 0

The first one.
 

fred18

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So how should I set up the scenario?

I add the crawler and the tower. But the tower is not attached

But I added a new crawler and it is attached. I guess I need to adjust the tower touchdown points as the tower is in the middle of the crawler

Use the scenario creation dialog that you can find in the dmd, and just tick the crawler (basically you just need to add the word "crawler" to the scenario file in the ms15 vessel section).

That (should) create the crawler and the pad, the latter should be using the module specified in the config file, and it should be attached to the crawler, so if you move the crawler around you'll see the pad moving together. If this happens, it's only a matter of designing the pad accordingly to the crawler's design, and if i am right (i'm not at the pc now) the crawler lifting point is about 9 meters from the ground when lowered and 11 when raised, but i have to check.

If you do just this what happens? Can you eventually post a screenshot?

The first one.

Ok, I'll check that if parameters are 0 they are saved as 0 and not skipped. I also have to give a look back at stage and booster dmd sections, since i'm afraid that since they were the first designed I lost some pieces here and there.

Anyway i'm updating the docs, it won't take long to have the package ready
 

fred18

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Is it also possible to have an empty crawler,just the crawler vehicle with no pad attached ?
Well, for the time being not by default, but if you throw the pad in the backyard and leave it there yes :)
 

gattispilot

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Ok. So what is the DMD? Ok. So It looks like I will need to redesign the tower to fit the crawler. It attaches mid way the length of the tower.
 

fred18

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Ok. So what is the DMD? Ok. So It looks like I will need to redesign the tower to fit the crawler. It attaches mid way the length of the tower.

DMD = Developer Mode Dialog, hit CTRL+Spacebar to open it.

the touch point of the Pad should be at 9.405 m from the ground. Crawler has a lifting capability of 2 m.
 

gattispilot

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Ok. I found an odd issue. So I added a crawler with the tower and it is ok. This is just a mesh of the tower. Then I added another crawler. Look no tower.

CRAWLER1.jpg


If I delete the first crawler the tower moves to the other crawler.
CRAWLER2.jpg


For the bigger issue. When I make the cfg for the crawler for the tower.dll so you can operate the arms.

I get this:
CRAWLERATTACHMENT.jpg


At first I thought I needed to adjust the touchdown points but it is attached. Using attachment manager I adjusted the MS-Pad attachment point.
CRAWLERATTACHMENT.jpg


So does the MS_pad make an attachment for the pad vessel?
Or does it seek out an attachment id? If it seek out an id I could add an child attachment to adjust the tower.
Otherwise The whole tower will need to be redone.

Also I noticed a rip in the ground
 
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Longjap

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Fred, I've noticed whatever I input at the fairing jettison angle it will always jettison in the same angle.
 

fred18

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So I added a crawler with the tower and it is ok. This is just a mesh of the tower. Then I added another crawler. Look no tower.

how did you add it? scenario editor? why do you need two crawlers?

For the bigger issue. When I make the cfg for the crawler for the tower.dll so you can operate the arms.
I don't understand this, sorry :shrug:

At first I thought I needed to adjust the touchdown points but it is attached. Using attachment manager I adjusted the MS-Pad attachment point.

So does the MS_pad make an attachment for the pad vessel?
Or does it seek out an attachment id? If it seek out an id I could add an child attachment to adjust the tower.
Otherwise The whole tower will need to be redone.

Touchdown points here does not relate to that, it is a matter of attachment.

You have to build a whole module which contains pad and tower, and this module should have the lower plane at 9.405 m from the ground (apart from its legs)

if I may suggest what to do I would not rebuild everything, but I would add to the module the mesh of the pad (simply using AddMesh(...)) and I would shift the tower mesh upwards of the amount needed with shiftmesh (or adding it at the right point but in this case you have to redefine animations properly).

Then simply put the module name in the config and that will do anything (it will create the attachment point etc).

Also I noticed a rip in the ground

It's not related to MS2015

Fred, I've noticed whatever I input at the fairing jettison angle it will always jettison in the same angle.

Hi! the "Angle" parameter in fairing describes the first element of the fairings circular array. then everything will be rotated by that angle. If you want to change jettison angle you have to modify the speed or rot_speed vectors.

in the image below you can see what I mean. The yellow ones are fairing with N=2 and angle=0, the blue one are N=2 and angle=45.
if you want to change the jettison angle, you have to change the jettison speed vector, and if you want them to rotate once jettisoned you have to change the jettison rot_speed vector.
Hope this is more clear. There are a lot of things that works like this in ms2015, like ullage engines, launch effects etc.

anglefair.jpg
 

gattispilot

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Now I am confused.:shrug:

Yes. I added The crawler in the scenario editor.

I think I will just redo the tower/pad so when you add it to the scenario. It will stand so the crawler will go under and then attach.
 

fred18

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The crawler is built in this way:
when you create the crawler it will:

1) create a launchpad named "MS_Pad" and attach this launchpad to itself.
2) if nothing is specified in the config file it will use the default square mesh provided with the addon
3) if a Pad_mesh is specified then it will use that mesh
4) if a Pad_module is specified then it will not use any mesh, but it will load that module as Launchpad, it will create an attachment point on that module and use it to attach to itself

Since I was intending the crawler just as a small eyecandy and to work with it just from the ms2015 hangar to a generic point for the launch some of its behaviours may not be friendly with the use intended in this case. Since it seems to be quite "enjoyed" I will add a couple of points to it in order to make it usable also in these ways. But I really need to finish the docs and to publish the final release of this... :hide:
 
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Hi! the "Angle" parameter in fairing describes the first element of the fairings circular array. then everything will be rotated by that angle. If you want to change jettison angle you have to modify the speed or rot_speed vectors.

in the image below you can see what I mean. The yellow ones are fairing with N=2 and angle=0, the blue one are N=2 and angle=45.
if you want to change the jettison angle, you have to change the jettison speed vector, and if you want them to rotate once jettisoned you have to change the jettison rot_speed vector.
Hope this is more clear. There are a lot of things that works like this in ms2015, like ullage engines, launch effects etc.

Ha! I didn't actually think about changing the angle of the fairing. I was changing the jettison x,y,z 'angle' parameters. I thought I could solve the issue there. I have N=3 so I needed to set angle=90 for the first element. Very clear, thanks.
 

fred18

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Ha! I didn't actually think about changing the angle of the fairing. I was changing the jettison x,y,z 'angle' parameters. I thought I could solve the issue there. I have N=3 so I needed to set angle=90 for the first element. Very clear, thanks.
Wait! It seems we are misunderstanding and that you were doing it right. Can you provide the numbers you were setting? Let's try from there
 

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Wait! It seems we are misunderstanding and that you were doing it right. Can you provide the numbers you were setting? Let's try from there

Ok, so the first element of my fairing is facing to the +Y direction. I had it set to

[FAIRING]
Meshname=SLS_2016\SLSORIONMPCVFAIR
Off=(0.000,0.000,44.870)
N=3
Angle=0.000
Height=6.000
Diameter=8.000
EmptyMass=1383.000
Module=stage
Speed=(8.000,0.000,0.000)
Rot_Speed=(0.000,0.000,0.000)

Speed=(0.000,8.000,0.000) didn't change anything IIRC.
Speed=(0.000,0.000,8.000) I saw some slight change in upwards direction, could be wrong.

Now it's
Angle=90.000
Speed=(8.000,0.000,0.000)
Rot_Speed=(0.700,0.000,0.000)

It works as expected.

I also should note that in the first case the meshes I used were off centre quite a lot, so the rotation point was far off. This might have contributed to the problem.

---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

I've tested some more, but it seems there is something wrong in the Speed=()
line. Although the angle fixed the jettison angle for me, the speed parameters for X and Y are the same. Z is a slight change in Z axis but the Y axis speed remains.

Rot_Speed works.
 
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fred18

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All right, let's say that now we are on the same page beacuse there are two aspects that must be taken care of in general:
1) how things are created on the rocket
2) how things are jettisoned from the rocket

So we are talking about two different points about your fairing here:
first of all they were not created in the right place, therefore the angle parameter was the key.

Once created in the right place (and now we did it with the angle) they should be jettisoned in the right way ok?

Now I could dig through the code but before doing that let's see if i remember how does it work correctly:

first of all the reference axis of the jettisoned fairing are not rotated, so they are the same of the vessel, see the following screenshot:
0022.jpg


The jettison parameters in the ini file are defined as:
Code:
Speed=(25,0,0)
Rot_speed(0,0.3,0)

so for the first element of the fairing it's a velocity on the X axis and a rotation around the Y axis right? and that matches! Then the jettison veolcity is rotated for each element so in the picture you see the opposite fairing element with a -X speed and a -Y rot_speed.
The rotation speed can be low, but the speed parameters shall be high enough to be strongly noticeable. Frankly speaking I never checked if this was respected perfectly in the sim or the result was a somehow scaled value, but i surely noticed that if I increased enough the numbers I could obtain the desired effect.

So basically I would say that if you have an angle of 90 the speed should be something like speed=(0,some value,0)

try a really high value to see if anything changes significantly there, does

speed=(0,40,0)

produce an effect too big in amplitude but with the desired orientation?

let me know!
cheers
Fred
 

Longjap

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try a really high value to see if anything changes significantly there, does

speed=(0,40,0)

produce an effect too big in amplitude but with the desired orientation?

let me know!
Fred

:) Yep, that's the point. The X speed parameter is the same as Y if understand correctly.
And Z has an added Y speed to it. So testing from the corrected 90 degree angle and the meshes properly adjusted, I've added a pic to clarify. Red is the incorrect direction.

Iv0gHk8.png


I certainly do not hope to give you unnecessary work. But this is correct right? :tiphat:
 

fred18

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:) Yep, that's the point. The X speed parameter is the same as Y if understand correctly.
And Z has an added Y speed to it. So testing from the corrected 90 degree angle and the meshes properly adjusted, I've added a pic to clarify. Red is the incorrect direction.

Iv0gHk8.png


I certainly do not hope to give you unnecessary work. But this is correct right? :tiphat:

I'm making some tests and I think you got it right.

Let me work on it to see if I can get the point and solve it. Surely it's not working as intended

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 ----------

Could you please update it to THIS and let me know if it works properly?
 

fred18

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Online on OH!

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:cheers:
 
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