Project Multistage2015 - Development Thread

[fred18]

:hesaid:

try to have a look at the jarvis multistage version, there were some tentatives of ice particle definitions

 

[4throck]

Thanks, I'll look at the Jarvis.

All that RCS talk was productive!
I'm getting good results by setting pitch/roll/yaw thrust progressively lower on each stage.
Each stage has about half the strength of the previous one.

To find the optimal values I start with low pitch/roll/yaw thrust for the first stage. Then I increase the value until the autopilot guidance is able to get into the green without any wild roll maneuvers. It's a smooth ride

 

[boogabooga]

It should be simply thrust / mass. I hope that in the OH is calculated in this way for both o2010 and o2016, if it's not it means i forgot to update one of the versions, i'll check

I will confirm that what is on O-H for Orbiter 2010 has NOT been updated to include the 'thrust / mass' G-force calculation.
I have not tried it for Orbiter 2016.

I still get an occasional CTD when I select the camera vessel, but this does not happen every time and most of the time it is fine. :hmm:

Also, I recommend that you start assigning version numbers to keep track of when and what changes are added.

 

[4throck]

Just to say that I got some decent ice/venting particles. :thumbup:

 

[cale1970]

Sorry, newbie here with a question: how do I raise the altitude of the launcher so that it sits properly on the pad? I've tried to do this with the "ALT" heading in the SCN file, but it doesn't seem to have any effect.

Any help appreciated. Thanks!

Cale

 

[PhantomCruiser]

At work at the moment so I can't bring up a config file, but I think it's the GC value that defines that?

If nobody beats me to it, I can get an answer to you in a few hours.

 

[boogabooga]

It's the COG parameter in the ini file.

Read the manual- Pagina (Page) 5.

 

[cale1970]

That worked...thanks so much!

Cheers,

Cale

 

[jacquesmomo]

Hi everybody :tiphat:

A simple question: is it possible to put several meshes for an inter-stage [SEPARATION_12] ?
Because with the Soyuz rockets the skirt has 3 parts.

Is it possible with Multistage? Or is it restricted with a single meshe ?

Thank you in advance for your answers.
Jacques

 

[fred18]

Hi everybody :tiphat:

A simple question: is it possible to put several meshes for an inter-stage [SEPARATION_12] ?
Because with the Soyuz rockets the skirt has 3 parts.

Is it possible with Multistage? Or is it restricted with a single meshe ?

Thank you in advance for your answers.
Jacques

Hi jacques,

nope only one mesh is possible for interstages. if you want to have more you can play with ghost boosters / stages / fairings to achieve a comparable result

 

[jacquesmomo]

Hi jacques,
nope only one mesh is possible for interstages. if you want to have more you can play with ghost boosters / stages / fairings to achieve a comparable result

That's what I thought...
thank you for your quick reply :tiphat:

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

I have done some tests : it is possible by declaring the 3 meshes as 3 stages...

Multistage2015 is full of hidden ressources :thumbup:

 

[4throck]

As I mentioned before, been working on Multistage Titans.
Here's a working version:
https://we.tl/o2MdbsyAha
(hope I didn't forget any files )

If you could test it a bit (before release on OH) that would be great.
I'm not that great with launch guidance, so the rockets are using the default autopilot.

I had some trouble with the more complex Titan III and IV configurations. Going by the numbers made the rockets underpowered. So I tweaked some values...
But probably I'm just not specifying the correct desired orbital parameters, burn delays times, whatever...

Any help there (to get more realistic results) would be welcome.

Also, all the CVEL titan meshes are included, so more configurations could be built!
I have no problem in including any contributions on the final release.

 

[barrygolden]

Thanks my friend. can't wait to try this. need to look at doing the Atlas so the Mars missions can come to life in 2016.

 

[boogabooga]

As I mentioned before, been working on Multistage Titans.
Here's a working version:
https://we.tl/o2MdbsyAha
(hope I didn't forget any files )

If you could test it a bit (before release on OH) that would be great.
I'm not that great with launch guidance, so the rockets are using the default autopilot.

I had some trouble with the more complex Titan III and IV configurations. Going by the numbers made the rockets underpowered. So I tweaked some values...
But probably I'm just not specifying the correct desired orbital parameters, burn delays times, whatever...

Any help there (to get more realistic results) would be welcome.

Also, all the CVEL titan meshes are included, so more configurations could be built!
I have no problem in including any contributions on the final release.

I tried out the Titan II. I noticed the following problems:

1) Your pitch, roll, and yaw thrusts are way too low. You can't complete a proper gravity turn with what you have there. I switched to default values and got a much better result.

2) You need to match the payload mass to the rocket better. Too heavy and you will not get to orbit, obviously, but too light seems to confuse the AP with excessive G force during launch. I increased the payload mass on Titan II from 600 Kg to 2900 kg and got to orbit with a tiny reserve left.

3) Purely cosmetic and at your discretion, but I would not have cryo pre-launch effects for the Titan II. If you want to stay true to the real thing, Titan II used all ambient temperature propellants. That was its purpose. Titan I and Centaur could have cryo venting, though.

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:21 PM ----------

I will confirm that what is on O-H for Orbiter 2010 has NOT been updated to include the 'thrust / mass' G-force calculation.
I have not tried it for Orbiter 2016.

I still get an occasional CTD when I select the camera vessel, but this does not happen every time and most of the time it is fine. :hmm:

Also, I recommend that you start assigning version numbers to keep track of when and what changes are added.

Did you see this, Fred?

Except that the thrust/mass G-force calculation IS up to date.

 

[4throck]

I tried out the Titan II. I noticed the following problems:..

Thanks for those details. I tried several sources for payload mass, but values are all over the place. I guess it really changed depending on the intended orbit...
Also, I didn't check the rocket orientation on the (invisible ) launch pad. That will influence the turn of course....

 

[boogabooga]

Let's move the discussion on individual projects:

https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=563565#post563565

 

[BrianJ]

Hi Fred
I have a bit of a problem with my launcher becoming attached to a "MS_LaunchPad" vessel at scenario start.

I am revisiting some of my old DeltaII launcher add-on missions, converting to Multistage2015 (for Orbiter2016).

In my scenario, the DeltaII starts already attached to my SLC17 launchpad.
But when I open the scenario, an "MS_LaunchPad" vessel is created and the DeltaII is attached to that (attachment to SLC17 is cancelled).

Is there any way to prevent this?
Many thanks!


Starting scenario:

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 52129.675
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Delta287
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Delta287
  MODE Extern
  POS 10.03 75.73 145.57
  TRACKMODE Ground Earth
  GROUNDLOCATION -80.56249 28.44743 1.00
  FOV 40.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE Orbit
  PROJ Frame
  FRAME Ecliptic
  REF Earth
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Surface
  SPDMODE 1
END_MFD


BEGIN_SHIPS
Delta287:vessels\GenesisMission\Delta287
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.5644580 28.4469890
  HEADING 115.00
  [B]ATTACHED 0:0,SLC17[/B]
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000 1:1.000 2:1.000 3:1.000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  CONFIG_FILE Config\vessels\GenesisMission\Delta287.ini
  GUIDANCE_FILE Config\vessels\GenesisMission\Delta287_guidance.txt
  CONFIGURATION 0
  STAGE_STATE 2
  STAGE_IGNITION_TIME 0.000
  CURRENT_BOOSTER 1
  CURRENT_STAGE 1
  CURRENT_INTERSTAGE 1
  CURRENT_PAYLOAD 1
  FAIRING 1
END
SLC17:SLC17\slc17
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.5660630 28.4455200
  HEADING 115
  ALT 0.500
  AROT -100.423 -65.175 159.924
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
END_SHIPS

Result scenario:

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 52129.6752036137
  Help CurrentState_img
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Delta287
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Delta287
  MODE Extern
  POS 10.030000 75.730000 145.570000
  TRACKMODE Ground Earth
  GROUNDLOCATION -80.56386 28.44602 16.13
  FOV 40.00
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE Orbit
  PROJ Frame
  FRAME Ecliptic
  REF Earth
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Surface
  SPDMODE 1
END_MFD

BEGIN_SHIPS
Delta287:vessels\GenesisMission\Delta287
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.5644580 28.4469890
  HEADING 115.00
  ALT -0.017
  AROT 151.225 -8.288 -110.474
  [B]ATTACHED 1:0,MS_LaunchPad_Delta287[/B]
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000 2:1.000000 3:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0 0 0
  XPDR 0
  CONFIG_FILE Config\vessels\GenesisMission\Delta287.ini
  GUIDANCE_FILE Config\vessels\GenesisMission\Delta287_guidance.txt
  CONFIGURATION 0
  CURRENT_BOOSTER 1
  CURRENT_STAGE 1
  CURRENT_INTERSTAGE 1
  CURRENT_PAYLOAD 1
  FAIRING 1
  MET -10.000
  STAGE_IGNITION_TIME 0.000000
  STAGE_STATE 2
  ALT_STEPS 100.0,350.0,1400.0,35000.0
  PEG_PITCH_LIMIT 35.000
  PEG_MC_INTERVAL 0.100
  RAMP 
END
SLC17:SLC17\slc17
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.5660630 28.4455200
  HEADING 115.00
  ALT 0.500
  AROT -100.423 -65.175 159.924
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  UMB 0 0.0000 0 0.0000
  TOWER 0 0.0000 0 0.0000
END
[B]MS_LaunchPad_Delta287:EmptyModule
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.5644580 28.4469890
  HEADING 115.00
  ALT 0.000
  AROT 151.225 -8.288 -110.474
  AFCMODE 7
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END[/B]
END_SHIPS

 

[Marg]

Sorry, did not want to post anything...

 

[fred18]

@boogabooga: thank you for your opening of the new thread, i totally agree with you. I'm out of town for a while, so I can't actively participate for a couple of weeks, but I'll be back soon. the plan anyway is to release the space network plugin, and then just afterwards an updated version of multistge2015 compatible with the space network, so some updates will be in that release

@brianj: I'm not sure I remember correctly, but did you use the Pad_module entry of the ini file, misc section? I think you must specify that for your custom module, then the procedures creates the pad using the module you specified and you should be ok, it's there for that purpose. I think it will create a launch pad called anyway "Ms_launchpad" but instead of using the default empty module it will use your module. Then, in case you need to specify some parameters in the scenario file just launch the sim and then close the file, the launchpad will be there and you'll be able to set the parameters you need to further customize. let me know if it doesn't work and I'll check the code

 

[jacquesmomo]

Hello BrianJ:tiphat:

May be this can help you ?
I am currently trying to adapt and "renovate" ELS at kourou for Orbiter 2016.
( I think the mobil-arms are your creation ? Papyref told me that) :thumbup:

The configuration looks like yours ...

Here is my scenario:

 BEGIN_DESC
Orbiter saved state at T = 1737
END_DESC
  
 BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 54311.7555395777
  Help CurrentState_img
END_ENVIRONMENT
  
 BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship Soyuz
END_FOCUS
  
 BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET Soyuz
  MODE Extern
  POS 6.584325 86.782727 -8.877488
  TRACKMODE Ground Earth
  GROUNDLOCATION -52.80029 5.30969 30.60
  GROUNDDIRECTION -3.16 -14.58
  FOV 60.00
END_CAMERA
  
 BEGIN_SHIPS
Soyuz:Kourou_Rockets\Soyuz\Soyuz
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -52.7473238 5.2317856
  HEADING 210.50
  ATTACHED 1:0,MS_LaunchPad_Soyuz
  AFCMODE 7
  FUEL 1
  CONFIG_FILE Config\Kourou_Rockets\Soyuz\Soyuz.ini
  GUIDANCE_FILE Config\Kourou_Rockets\Soyuz\Soyuz_guidance_test.txt
  CONFIGURATION 0
  RAMP
END
MS_LaunchPad_Soyuz:Ghost_ELS-Train
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -52.7473238 5.2317856
  HEADING 210.50
  ATTACHED 0:0,ELS_arms
  AFCMODE 7
  NAVFREQ 0 0
END
Base-ELS:Kourou_Rockets\Base-ELS
  STATUS Landed Earth
  BASE Kourou:4
  HEADING 0
  CONFIG_FILE Config\Kourou_Rockets\base-ELS.ini
  CONFIGURATION 0
  CURRENT_STAGE 1
  CURRENT_PAYLOAD 1
  BOOSTER 1
  FAIRING 0
END
ELS_arms:Kourou\ELSarms
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -52.7999023 5.3096325
  HEADING 0.00
   ATTACHED 0:0,Base-ELS
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000
  THLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000 3:1.000000 4:1.000000 5:1.000000 6:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  ARMS 0 0.0000
  UMB 0 0.0000
END
ELS_Tower-Train:Kourou\ELS_Tower-Train
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -52.7999023 5.3096325
  HEADING 0.00
  ALT 0.000
  AROT -1.208 75.732 -158.380
  ATTACHED 0:1,Base-ELS
  AFCMODE 7
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  RCS 1
  CTRL_SURFACE 1
  CONFIGURATION 1
  CURRENT_PAYLOAD 0
  SEQ 3 2 1.000000
  SEQ 5 2 0.266702
END
END_SHIPS

And here is the "splashscreen":

precision:
as the whole "train + building"meshe does not stand up (because of the pit - or hole -, I have attached (as payload) it to an invisible vessel "Base-ELS" which is a "Multistage2015" vessel.

Maybe I could make this less complicated, but... it works !
- I can bring the rocket on his pad with the train, then unhook it.
- the rocket automatically hangs on the arm.
- and I can launch the rocket.

@ Fred : I just read your post...:hello:
I have to understand (because my english is bad) what you said, may be I can test something else.... I don't know yet...