Discussion One year anniversary of the final space shuttle launch

Wrangler

Document Skimmer
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Messages
72
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Islamabad
I am not an American, but I watched the Shuttles go up my entire life. To me, they have always been a symbol of what humans can achieve when they put they focus on a target. I would rather look at the that than our other destructive products. Hats off to all the folks who made the STS possible. A special salute to the Challenger and Columbia.
 

Marg

Active member
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
485
Reaction score
68
Points
28
A year ago I was there, at Port Canaveral. Yeah, what a great week in USA it was. Two astronauts met, two tours at KSC, pus NASCAR & Indycar ride.
Sweet memories. On a way back to Europe, saw Chicago "Loop" from the air.
But missed "wrigley field" underneath...

BTW, gaps in the clouds were positioned the way, that it was better to view the launch from port Canaveral, than from Titusville.
Even a little better was Jetty park site, but there was no possibility to see launch pad from there.
 
Last edited:

statisticsnerd

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
117
Reaction score
24
Points
33
Location
Earth
The shuttles were built in the 80s. Just like an old car, they were old and needed to be replaced. I wouldn't feel safe going up on a 30 year old shuttle, just like I wouldn't feel safe driving a 30 year old car.

Also, the shuttles were obscenely expensive, all in the name of having a "reusable" space plane. Big deal, the Russians have been sending up non-reusable Soyuz capsules forever at a fraction of the cost and they have a much better safety record than the shuttles!

What did the shuttle program accomplish anyway? So we built a space station (the ISS). Well, there was also Skylab and Mir. On that note, has the ISS really made any breakthroughs, or is that just another money pit?

We can talk about Hubble, but that could have been sent up with a heavy lift launch vehicle for cheaper. There's no reason why it had to go up on the shuttle.

Personally, I think we should skip the Moon (been there, done that) and head straight for Mars.
 

garyw

O-F Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Addon Developer
Tutorial Publisher
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
10,485
Reaction score
209
Points
138
Location
Kent
Website
blog.gdwnet.com
The shuttles were built in the 80s. Just like an old car, they were old and needed to be replaced. I wouldn't feel safe going up on a 30 year old shuttle, just like I wouldn't feel safe driving a 30 year old car.

They were built in the 70's and there are many 30 year old cars that have just as much love and attention as the shuttles did. Have you never wanted to drive a classic car?

After each mission the shuttles were exhaustively tested and checked. I'll bet your car isn't and I know most aircraft are not.

Also, the shuttles were obscenely expensive, all in the name of having a "reusable" space plane. Big deal, the Russians have been sending up non-reusable Soyuz capsules forever at a fraction of the cost and they
have a much better safety record than the shuttles!

Soyuz only has a slightly better safety record. Shuttles costs were fixed on a per year basis no matter how many times they flew.

What did the shuttle program accomplish anyway? So we built a space station (the ISS). Well, there was also Skylab and Mir. On that note, has the ISS really made any breakthroughs, or is that just another money pit?

Have you seen the ISS papers on science? or the Spacehab papers?

We can talk about Hubble, but that could have been sent up with a heavy lift launch vehicle for cheaper. There's no reason why it had to go up on the shuttle.

True but hubble would have been in the ocean decades ago due to the faulty mirror. Simple fact is only the shuttle had the ability to fix that.

Personally, I think we should skip the Moon (been there, done that) and head straight for Mars.

thats like saying that you know every corner of your house because you stood in the front garden for five minutes. There is much more to the moon that the 2 or 3km currently explored.
 

Codz

NEA Scout Wrencher
Donator
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
3,586
Reaction score
1
Points
61
Location
Huntsville, AL
Preferred Pronouns
He/Him
What did the shuttle program accomplish anyway? So we built a space station (the ISS). Well, there was also Skylab and Mir. On that note, has the ISS really made any breakthroughs, or is that just another money pit?

The Shuttle was never involved in the Skylab program. The ISS has been a great platform for studying the effects of long term periods in space, among other things.

We can talk about Hubble, but that could have been sent up with a heavy lift launch vehicle for cheaper. There's no reason why it had to go up on the shuttle.

An unmanned vehicle couldn't have performed the multiple repair missions that Hubble needed to remain effective for as long as it has.

Personally, I think we should skip the Moon (been there, done that) and head straight for Mars.

We haven't even explored 1/100th of the Moon and you're saying that we've "been there, done that"? We have only barely scratched the surface during the Apollo Program. Even then, only three of those missions were dedicated extended stay missions as well. Setting up research outposts on the Moon and further exploring it is integral to us keeping a constant and sustainable presence in space. The "been there, done that" mentality only makes sense if you want go there, set up a flag, and then never go back after that mission is over.
 

FADEC

New member
Joined
Mar 25, 2011
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I wouldn't feel safe going up on a 30 year old shuttle, just like I wouldn't feel safe driving a 30 year old car.

Feelings are subjective ;)

A 70 year old car can be in better shape as a 10 year old car...

Mercedes-Benz-540-K-Autobahn-Kurier_3.jpg


Safety does not basically depend on age. It depends on maintenance and updates.

The Shuttle was the best maintained flying machine in the world with many modern updates. And more than 30 years after its development it still remains the most advanced flying machine ever designed. No other plane does reach a velocity of 8 km/s within less than 9 minutes, enters the atmosphere at a velocity of about 7.6 km/s and performs a spot landing on the runway, unpowered. It did so flawlessly for 30 years, manned from its first to its last flight.

Neither the Challenger nor the Columbia disaster was caused by aging. Shuttle flights could have continued not just for years, but even for another decades, just like many properly maintained airplanes do fly for half a century and longer. I took a seat on an Antonov AN2 which was build in the 1950s. It did fly like a charm and it still flies. I often see it and especially hear it while cleaning the windows of my attic flat in the summer.

the Russians have been sending up non-reusable Soyuz capsules forever at a fraction of the cost and they have a much better safety record than the shuttles!

The comparison is invalid. Because Soyuz is not a multipurpose, reusable spaceplane, that can carry tons of payloads and return it to earth. You have to compare the Shutte with Buran, which shows the reality of operating such vehicles. It was not any different for Russia. One test flight, unmanned, and that's it. Too expensive (beside technological issues), especially during collapse of the UDSSR.

Russia does operate Soyuz at a fraction of the cost, just like SpaceX does it with their small system, or like a Cessna 172 at my local airport is operated for lower costs than any Boeing 737.

has the ISS really made any breakthroughs, or is that just another money pit?

It's a working example of an international mega project in space, and the biggest stepping stone for future missions. The empirical and technological value is higher than the one of Apollo I think. Apollo was a big and awesome show, but not really something special technologically. The special thing basically was to leave earth orbit manned, enter the orbit of another heavenly body and land on it. But nothing of that stuff beats the Shuttle and ISS technologically so far.

Setting up research outposts on the Moon and further exploring it is integral to us keeping a constant and sustainable presence in space.

I don't think so. Flying to the Moon and live there has only very little to do with flying to Mars an live there for example. It's completely different challenges while flying to the Moon actually is no real challenge in comparison. It's only 1.3 seconds / 2 days away. It has no atmosphere and differs to the surface of Mars. And flying to an asteroid is another different story. What we need for a constant and sustainable presence in space is what we already have: a constantly occupied space station. Next step should be Mars. The Moon might be interesting for future unmanned research with advanced robot technologies.
 
Last edited:

Quick_Nick

Passed the Turing Test
Donator
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
4,088
Reaction score
204
Points
103
Location
Tucson, AZ
No other plane does reach a velocity of 8 km/s within less than 9 minutes, enters the atmosphere at a velocity of about 7.6 km/s and performs a spot landing on the runway, unpowered.

Do you not want to count the X-37? It should be capable of much more.

And I wouldn't underestimate the ability of unmanned, even automated, spacecraft to perform repairs, etc. The signal delay sucks beyond Earth orbit though.
 

FADEC

New member
Joined
Mar 25, 2011
Messages
1,207
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Do you not want to count the X-37?

No. It's a small, unmanned 5 tons glider which is far away from the capabilities and 30 years of history of the 80 tons 7-8 (or actually 10) crew member Space Shuttle.
 

Traveller

Donator
Donator
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
A few days past the anniversary of the launch, but...

I'd never seen so many people in the LC39 area as I did that day. It seems that everyone who could make it on Center for the launch, did. And with good reason...

It was, at its core, a shuttle launch. Thus it was something to experience. As the last one ever, though, well, it was one to be savored. I debated whether to record the launch, or stand and experience it. I decided to record it, with pictures as opposed to video. I'm glad I did, as I recorded coolness right before it punched through the clouds. I was still standing at my spot long after the launch, after most of the crowd had already dispersed.

Argue the merits of shuttle if you must, but there was nothing like being 3 miles away from a launch. It literally got into your bones. We won't see its like for a long time.

A few images from that day...
 

Attachments

  • STS-135 Launch 003 Small_2.JPG
    STS-135 Launch 003 Small_2.JPG
    164.3 KB · Views: 7
  • STS-135 Launch 004 Roll Sequence Small_2.JPG
    STS-135 Launch 004 Roll Sequence Small_2.JPG
    100.5 KB · Views: 11
  • STS-135 Launch 006 Small_2.JPG
    STS-135 Launch 006 Small_2.JPG
    102.1 KB · Views: 8
Top