Orbiter 2016 - RC.4

[fort]

Here we go.
Orbiter Patch RC3 to RC4

Once again, thank you Jordan. And by comparing the svn rc60 to the rc61 downloaded in separate folders, i confirm the abscence of the icon, zlib and the four textures ( callisto... and so on ) in the rev 61.

Good day.

 

[DaveS]

Is there a short document on tileedit that outlines the most efficient way to use it to level terrain for stuff like runways?

 

[fort]

Is there a short document on tileedit that outlines the most efficient way to use it to level terrain for stuff like runways?

I dont know if this can be sighted as a short document and can help ( i'm far to understand it's content but maybe later... ). It is question here of elevation and of runway - JMW question.

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=36683&highlight=Working+Matlab+tileedit

 

[DaveS]

For me Tile Edit is very buggy. When I click on an area in the elevation view nothing seems to happen, no matter what "Mouse action" I have selected. Only the "Zoom and pan " action seems to work and that's in surface view. Not only that, it's very slow. So in my mind, Tile Edit needs some serious work. It reminds me of half-hearted VB applications back in the 90's, they had similar issues (crash-happy and slow).

 

[Face]

For me Tile Edit is very buggy. When I click on an area in the elevation view nothing seems to happen, no matter what "Mouse action" I have selected. Only the "Zoom and pan " action seems to work and that's in surface view. Not only that, it's very slow. So in my mind, Tile Edit needs some serious work. It reminds me of half-hearted VB applications back in the 90's, they had similar issues (crash-happy and slow).

Well, seems like another opportunity to create an Orbiter tool!

 

[DaveS]

Well, seems like another opportunity to create an Orbiter tool!

Happy to help! Yes, elevation modification right now is a bit of a hit-or-miss deal so any improvements are welcome here.

 

[martins]

Well, it was only ever intended as a quick hack to let me find my way around the quadtree during development. For starters, the Matlab interface is a serious bottleneck. If one of the graphics wizards here is willing to write a Matlab-free replacement (maybe using Qt?) you are more than welcome.

 

[Face]

Happy to help! Yes, elevation modification right now is a bit of a hit-or-miss deal so any improvements are welcome here.

Is it "only" to flatten area around bases/runways? Perhaps a first workable solution could be to convert elevation tiles to heightmaps, edit them with a graphics program, then convert back to elevation tile or even diff it to elevation modification tiles. I can imagine flattening by means of using a brush of a certain color, perhaps with heightmap and texture transparently overlayed. That way you don't have to create a full blown UI for it.

 

[Eduard]

I have some questions:
- With space shuttle Atlantis in orbit, when I try to use the key J to release the satellite or the key E to start MMU, nothing happens. What are the right new ways to do this? Or am I doing something wrong?
- When is the auto-refuel on pad function expected to work again? Or will this function finally be removed?

Furthermore, I would also like to say that I have not seen any CTDs anymore when doing time warps since Rev.59. The transfers between Earth and Moon are now going without problems. So it seems that this problem is realy fixed. :thumbup:

 

[DaveS]

Is it "only" to flatten area around bases/runways? Perhaps a first workable solution could be to convert elevation tiles to heightmaps, edit them with a graphics program, then convert back to elevation tile or even diff it to elevation modification tiles. I can imagine flattening by means of using a brush of a certain color, perhaps with heightmap and texture transparently overlayed. That way you don't have to create a full blown UI for it.

I'm afraid what I have in mind is a bit larger than just a runway or two. I want to flatten a rather large area to make room for airfields and other proper base items. Edwards for example is more than just the main concrete runway (22/04). It also consists of the runways on Roger's Dry Lake (Most early shuttle missions and the X-15 used one of these rather than the concrete runway). Then we have Vandenberg which consists of the main airfield on North Base with most of the SLCs located on South Base. Here we are talking about 10's square kilometers.

 

[Face]

I'm afraid what I have in mind is a bit larger than just a runway or two. I want to flatten a rather large area to make room for airfields and other proper base items. Edwards for example is more than just the main concrete runway (22/04). It also consists of the runways on Roger's Dry Lake (Most early shuttle missions and the X-15 used one of these rather than the concrete runway). Then we have Vandenberg which consists of the main airfield on North Base with most of the SLCs located on South Base. Here we are talking about 10's square kilometers.

So there should be the ability to combine tiles to larger ones, to see the continuous picture of a larger area. Still I think what you describe could be achieved for first quick results by means of heightmaps and a good graphics program. In the later you have all kind of tools to draw various filled shapes.

Would it help you to get forward, if I implement the following into treeman:

• the base conversion feature also creates a PNG of all tiles composed, for each layer - this is the orientation overlay picture
• also a 16-bit grayscale picture is created from the info in the corresponding elevation tiles, covering the same area - this is the basic heightmap
• in addition, the elev_mod tiles are converted to 16-bit grayscale with transparent global color the same as the alpha mask in the tiles - this would be the heightmap overlay, and also the working area for you
• I could make a quick python-fu function for GIMP to take these three inputs and combine them to a ready-to-edit display. You'd see the opaque base heightmap, overlayed the opaque alpha blended work area over it, and the orientation overlay picture with some level of transparency over this. The only active layer would be the work area, where you can then do whatever you want. E.g. identify color (==height), fill this color into a freely drawn shape, use a brush with smooth edges (erosion/dilation).
• another option in treeman could then take the finished work area and convert it back to elev_mod tiles

 

[Loru]

I wouldn't use greyscale maps but rather create 3d file (obj, or even msh) out of it. That way you can have much more precise control over it and can fit base objects precisely to terrain (buildings on slopped surfaces, non flat taxiways etc.) That way you can for example add terrain vertical features vertical or "negative slope" ones.

Ideally a tool that grabs terrain tile by coordinates, extracts both height and texture and converts it to textured msh file . Then, after it can export it back to tile format and texture and pack it back to archive or leave as "add-on" texture with correct filenames for height data and texture.

Neat idea would be selection for subdividing mesh and texture data on import from orbiter, so you can locally have higher resolution.

My 2 cents.

 

[Face]

I wouldn't use greyscale maps but rather create 3d file (obj, or even msh) out of it. That way you can have much more precise control over it and can fit base objects precisely to terrain (buildings on slopped surfaces, non flat taxiways etc.) That way you can for example add terrain vertical features vertical or "negative slope" ones.

Ideally a tool that grabs terrain tile by coordinates, extracts both height and texture and converts it to textured msh file . Then, after it can export it back to tile format and texture and pack it back to archive or leave as "add-on" texture with correct filenames for height data and texture.

Neat idea would be selection for subdividing mesh and texture data on import from orbiter, so you can locally have higher resolution.

These are good ideas. There definitely is some kind of tool vacuum there to fill up.

However, I think it is easier for people to edit a 2D picture than to edit a 3D mesh, especially in this use-case (quick flattening of area around bases). But of course I have only myself as reference point here. Any more base developers out there willing to give input?

 

[Notebook]

As a base developer, I'm waiting for 2016 before I start a new one. I don't understand the new texture/tile? structure at all, so I can't be much help there unfortunately.

While working on Corn Ranch using RC4, I can see a problem on the road between the assembly area, and the pads. That would need flattening, but I've no idea how to do it.

N.

 

[Face]

While working on Corn Ranch using RC4, I can see a problem on the road between the assembly area, and the pads. That would need flattening, but I've no idea how to do it.

With your skills, would you rather use a paint-like program to edit a 2D picture, or use a modeling software to edit a 3D terrain mesh, in order to do the flattening? What would you expect from a tool that helps you in doing so? Besides doing it all fully automated, of course .

 

[malisle]

I'm sorry for being out of the loop, but is there a simple way to update HR textures?

My problem is that I have no idea which ones do I have, and even if I get the whole package again I will probably have the same problem in a few months if updates do occur within that period.

Some date/version/MD5 tile checking tool that gives you update links to the tiles/bodies you're missing or are not up to date would be nice, especially if it could be automated to some degree.

If something already exists, download link please?

 

[fort]

As a base developer, I'm waiting for 2016 before I start a new one. I don't understand the new texture/tile? structure at all, so I can't be much help there unfortunately.

While working on Corn Ranch using RC4, I can see a problem on the road between the assembly area, and the pads. That would need flattening, but I've no idea how to do it.

N.

I don't understand Notebook. You made it so often.

The structure of the texture/tile have not changed in it's principle. Levels, subdivisions and names to give tiles a place, horizontally and "vertically" ( levels ) in the map.

The names have changed but it's for the rest as it was, at least for the surftiles.

Tiles have an identification N/S, E/W.

For example, in the defunt ( and next coming ) mappicker a Hires as the EarthHi_12_07 ( 12 from South and 7 from West ), at level 13 for the surftiles, have 32 subfolders ( N/S ) and 32 tiles in each ( E/W ); 512 px for each tile.

The first (upper) subfolder is named 000096 ( the maximum in the N/S direction in the mappicker for EarthHi is 15 so; at level 13, 15/32 ( starting from 0 ! ) + 14/32 + 13/32 = 95 ) so the first subfolder in EarthHi_12_07 start at 96; it's the same principle on the E/W direction.

Quadtree.

And here post #39
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=37289&page=3

A question is in the correspondance between elev and surf. Dr Schweiger gives an explanation in the forum that i've not completely read ( and that i will certainly have to reread, and reread and reread again). For example in the low ? high ? res zip, one can see that one an have 13 level for example, as Elev, and only 12 level for Surf. :hmm:

Post #49
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=33798&page=4

Overall, one can do all this in the rustic way: Xnview, a splitter as TileMage Image Splitter and one or two other tools. It takes time. In french: ça use !


Good day.




__________________________________

If you fail to success to the long jump, try the width jump

 

[Face]

@martins: I apologize if this has been asked before, but do you also plan to replace the old ring texture system? If not, will switching e.g. Saturn to new texture mode still use the old ring texture?

 

[Notebook]

With your skills, would you rather use a paint-like program to edit a 2D picture, or use a modeling software to edit a 3D terrain mesh, in order to do the flattening? What would you expect from a tool that helps you in doing so? Besides doing it all fully automated, of course .

I'm happier with 3d mesh manipulation, used 3DS and now using A3CD. I have done some alpha-blending/feathering on surface tiles, but I find it hard.

I suppose a tool that would take a set of lat/long points as a polygon, and flatten the internal area. Also, flatten an area between two points to a certain width, for runways, taxiways, roads.

Thanks, N.

 

[fort]

With your skills, would you rather use a paint-like program to edit a 2D picture, or use a modeling software to edit a 3D terrain mesh, in order to do the flattening? What would you expect from a tool that helps you in doing so? Besides doing it all fully automated, of course .

Hello,

I'm not immediatly concerned by height values ( elevations ), maybe someday, and i was searching, some months in the past, to undersand how was those *.Elev files made, created. That extension seems, im my memory refer to an other simulator ( tanks ? ) with a dedicated program to made it. I remember also questions of elevation in Worldwind ( and i suppose in Google ).

Good day.