IronRain
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Time-Lapse: Mobile Launcher Moves to Launch Pad
Updates Orion (MPCV) Updates and Discussion
- Thread starter apollo13
- Start date
I've been reading through the "user's guide" for the Delta IV and Atlas V as published on the ULA website, and;
Performance for the Delta IV given on page 48 of that vehicle's payload planner's guide for a 'FTS unconstrained' GTO is given as 13 399 kg. LEO payload is given as 22 977 kg, so presumably this is not referencing the RS-68A version (incidentally, payload to a 51.6 degree orbit is given as the same as payload to a 28.7 degree orbit- shouldn't there be a performance hit from the higher inclination?)
Performance for the Atlas V Heavy is given on page 59 of that vehicle's payload planner's guide to a 1 804m/s GTO as 13 000 kg, assuming SEC and the long payload fairing.
Does this ~400 kilogram advantage mean that a hypothetical Atlas-launched EFT-1 would break the laws of physics? Or would the quoted advantage diminsh with a lower dV, due to the differences in ISP and dry mass between the DIVHUS and Centaur?
And what about other selection reasons for the Delta IV selection (albeit ones that clash with the "Atlas V isn't big enough" statement)?
My uninformed mind supposes;
- Unacceptable mass penalties from the Centaur-spacecraft adapter.
- Unacceptable mass penalties from the LAS (though this will arguably affect any other launcher equally).
- Structural issues with integrating Orion and its LAS to Centaur or the vehicle as a whole.
- Aerodynamic issues with Orion, its LAS, and the fairing panels around the Orion SM with regard to the rest of the vehicle.
- Unwanted substitution of the 5-meter Atlas fairing for a specialised fairing around the Orion and Centaur?
- Clearance or access issues with regard to the launch pad or integration facility.
- Lead time for the Atlas V Heavy. The Payload Planner's Guide states a time of 30 months from Authority to Proceed to launch. This would mean that if an Atlas 5 Heavy were ordered today, it would be ready for launch around March 2013.
Also, this is probably a bit off-topic here, but what effect will the alterations to the Ares I ML have on the potential for the ATK Liberty rocket?
Performance for the Delta IV given on page 48 of that vehicle's payload planner's guide for a 'FTS unconstrained' GTO is given as 13 399 kg. LEO payload is given as 22 977 kg, so presumably this is not referencing the RS-68A version (incidentally, payload to a 51.6 degree orbit is given as the same as payload to a 28.7 degree orbit- shouldn't there be a performance hit from the higher inclination?)
Performance for the Atlas V Heavy is given on page 59 of that vehicle's payload planner's guide to a 1 804m/s GTO as 13 000 kg, assuming SEC and the long payload fairing.
Does this ~400 kilogram advantage mean that a hypothetical Atlas-launched EFT-1 would break the laws of physics? Or would the quoted advantage diminsh with a lower dV, due to the differences in ISP and dry mass between the DIVHUS and Centaur?
And what about other selection reasons for the Delta IV selection (albeit ones that clash with the "Atlas V isn't big enough" statement)?
My uninformed mind supposes;
- Unacceptable mass penalties from the Centaur-spacecraft adapter.
- Unacceptable mass penalties from the LAS (though this will arguably affect any other launcher equally).
- Structural issues with integrating Orion and its LAS to Centaur or the vehicle as a whole.
- Aerodynamic issues with Orion, its LAS, and the fairing panels around the Orion SM with regard to the rest of the vehicle.
- Unwanted substitution of the 5-meter Atlas fairing for a specialised fairing around the Orion and Centaur?
- Clearance or access issues with regard to the launch pad or integration facility.
- Lead time for the Atlas V Heavy. The Payload Planner's Guide states a time of 30 months from Authority to Proceed to launch. This would mean that if an Atlas 5 Heavy were ordered today, it would be ready for launch around March 2013.
Also, this is probably a bit off-topic here, but what effect will the alterations to the Ares I ML have on the potential for the ATK Liberty rocket?
Last edited:
The main reason is that the Atlas V Heavy has never flown before, while the Delta IV Heavy has flown five times. The risk of flying on an unproven version of the Atlas just isn't worth it. Add to that the schedule risk of being the first flight on a new rocket, and the fact that the spacecraft adaptor to the upper stage is also going to be used for the initial SLS test flights.
The modifications won't affect Liberty at all, since it won't be using it.
What new rocket? The Atlas V Heavy has already been developed and has had 95% of its flight hardware flown already, repeatedly. The risk is there (and it's always there, especially on the first flight of an untested system) but it shouldn't be too much of an issue.
It may be one reason among many, but it as the sole deciding factor? I'm skeptical, and it doesn't jive with the "Atlas just doesn't have the lifting capacity" statement.
Good point. Why has the DIVHUS been chosen for this role instead of Centaur? Safety, integration or logistics issues with the pressure-supported tanks, or preference for the higher ISP of the RL-10B-2 engine on the former?
What would it be using then? The multi-vehicle pads proposed by USA?
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NASA:
Orion Continues to Make a Splash
December 2,.2011
Testing continues at NASA Langley Research Center as the 18,000-pound (8,164.6 kg) Orion test article took its seventh splash into the Hydro Impact Basin Dec. 1.
The seventh Orion test article drop test at the Hydro Impact Basin, December 1, 2011.
Orion, NASA's next deep space exploration vehicle, will carry astronauts into space, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel, and ensure safe re-entry and landing.
The testing, which began in this summer, simulates different water landing scenarios and takes into account different velocities, parachute deployments, entry angles, wave heights and wind conditions that Orion may face when landing in the Pacific Ocean.
"We are doing several of these tests to look at the operational envelope for the Orion landing conditions and the analysts need as much data as we can possibly give them," said Lynn Bowman, SPLASH project manager. "In order to do it in as few cases possible, we have to look at these critical cases, which is not your average landing scenario or sea condition."
The Dec. 1 test was all about the heat shield and how much it would flex when it hits the water at a slightly different angle then during previous drops at during a low-wind swell case.
The test article was only two feet above the water before it dropped pancake-style into the water. It traveled about 7 mph (11.26 kph).
There are more than 150 sensors on the test article that record data during each test drop. The results of these initial tests will help improve the design for the actual flight vehicle.
The last drop of the year is tentatively scheduled for Tuesday, Dec. 13.
{...}
Orion Continues to Make a Splash
December 2,.2011
Testing continues at NASA Langley Research Center as the 18,000-pound (8,164.6 kg) Orion test article took its seventh splash into the Hydro Impact Basin Dec. 1.
Click on image to enlarge
The seventh Orion test article drop test at the Hydro Impact Basin, December 1, 2011.Credit: NASA/Sean Smith
Orion, NASA's next deep space exploration vehicle, will carry astronauts into space, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel, and ensure safe re-entry and landing.
The testing, which began in this summer, simulates different water landing scenarios and takes into account different velocities, parachute deployments, entry angles, wave heights and wind conditions that Orion may face when landing in the Pacific Ocean.
"We are doing several of these tests to look at the operational envelope for the Orion landing conditions and the analysts need as much data as we can possibly give them," said Lynn Bowman, SPLASH project manager. "In order to do it in as few cases possible, we have to look at these critical cases, which is not your average landing scenario or sea condition."
The Dec. 1 test was all about the heat shield and how much it would flex when it hits the water at a slightly different angle then during previous drops at during a low-wind swell case.
The test article was only two feet above the water before it dropped pancake-style into the water. It traveled about 7 mph (11.26 kph).
There are more than 150 sensors on the test article that record data during each test drop. The results of these initial tests will help improve the design for the actual flight vehicle.
The last drop of the year is tentatively scheduled for Tuesday, Dec. 13.
{...}
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NASA:
Orion Drop Test - Dec. 13, 2011
December 13, 2011
Testing continues at NASA Langley Research Center as the 18,000-pound (8,165 kg) Orion test article took its eight and final splash of the year into the Hydro Impact Basin on Dec. 13. Orion, the next deep space exploration vehicle, will carry astronauts into space, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel, and ensure safe re-entry and landing.
The testing, which began in this summer, simulates different water landing scenarios and takes into account different velocities, parachute deployments, entry angles, wave heights and wind conditions that Orion may face when landing in the Pacific Ocean. The Dec. 13 test simulated all parachutes being deployed with a nominal re-entry angle into steady seas. The capsule was at a 28 degree angle and traveled 20 mph (32.2 kph) before splashing into the basin.
This test series also takes into account conditions that may result in the capsule landing in an inverted position, which tends to occur more frequently with the higher horizontal velocities and impact angles. As was the case with the Apollo vehicle, the Orion flight design will feature an onboard uprighting system to restore the vehicle to an upright orientation prior to recovery.
Orion remained upright upon landing into the basin.
{...}
Orion Drop Test - Dec. 13, 2011
December 13, 2011
Testing continues at NASA Langley Research Center as the 18,000-pound (8,165 kg) Orion test article took its eight and final splash of the year into the Hydro Impact Basin on Dec. 13. Orion, the next deep space exploration vehicle, will carry astronauts into space, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel, and ensure safe re-entry and landing.
Click on image to enlarge
Eighth water landing drop test of the Orion test article at the Hydro Impact Basin, Dec. 13, 2011.
Credit: NASA/Sean Smith
The testing, which began in this summer, simulates different water landing scenarios and takes into account different velocities, parachute deployments, entry angles, wave heights and wind conditions that Orion may face when landing in the Pacific Ocean. The Dec. 13 test simulated all parachutes being deployed with a nominal re-entry angle into steady seas. The capsule was at a 28 degree angle and traveled 20 mph (32.2 kph) before splashing into the basin.
This test series also takes into account conditions that may result in the capsule landing in an inverted position, which tends to occur more frequently with the higher horizontal velocities and impact angles. As was the case with the Apollo vehicle, the Orion flight design will feature an onboard uprighting system to restore the vehicle to an upright orientation prior to recovery.
Orion remained upright upon landing into the basin.
{...}
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NASA:
NASA Conducts Orion Parachute Testing for Orbital Test Flight
Dec. 21, 2011
NASA successfully conducted a drop test of the Orion crew vehicle's parachutes high above the Arizona desert Tuesday, Dec. 20, in preparation for its orbital flight test in 2014. Orion will carry astronauts deeper into space than ever before, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel and ensure a safe re-entry and landing.
A C-130 plane dropped the Orion test article from an altitude of 25,000 feet above the U.S. Army's Yuma Proving Grounds. Orion's drogue chutes were deployed between 15,000 and 20,000 feet, followed by the pilot parachutes, which then deployed two main landing parachutes. This particular drop test examined how Orion would land under two possible failure scenarios.
A test article that mimics the Orion spacecraft is seen under parachutes Tuesday, Dec. 20, as NASA engineers conducted a drop test above Yuma, Ariz. The Orion team was examining how the spacecraft would land under only two parachutes, instead of the normal three.
Orion's parachutes are designed to open in stages, which is called reefing, to manage the stresses on the parachutes after they are deployed. The reefing stages allow the parachutes to sequentially open, first at 54 percent of the parachutes' full diameter, and then at 73 percent. This test examined how the parachutes would perform if the second part of the sequence was skipped.
The second scenario was a failure to deploy one of Orion's three main parachutes, requiring the spacecraft to land with only two. Orion landed on the desert floor at a speed of almost 33 feet per second, which is the maximum designed touchdown speed of the spacecraft.
Since 2007, the Orion program has conducted a vigorous parachute air and ground test program and provided the chutes for NASA's successful pad abort test in 2010. Lessons learned from this experience have improved Orion's parachute system.
{...}
NASA Press Release: RELEASE : 11-423 - NASA Conducts Orion Parachute Testing For Orbital Test Flight
Parabolic Arc: NASA Conducts Successful Parachute Test of Orion
NASA Conducts Orion Parachute Testing for Orbital Test Flight
Dec. 21, 2011
NASA successfully conducted a drop test of the Orion crew vehicle's parachutes high above the Arizona desert Tuesday, Dec. 20, in preparation for its orbital flight test in 2014. Orion will carry astronauts deeper into space than ever before, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel and ensure a safe re-entry and landing.
A C-130 plane dropped the Orion test article from an altitude of 25,000 feet above the U.S. Army's Yuma Proving Grounds. Orion's drogue chutes were deployed between 15,000 and 20,000 feet, followed by the pilot parachutes, which then deployed two main landing parachutes. This particular drop test examined how Orion would land under two possible failure scenarios.
Click on image for details
A test article that mimics the Orion spacecraft is seen under parachutes Tuesday, Dec. 20, as NASA engineers conducted a drop test above Yuma, Ariz. The Orion team was examining how the spacecraft would land under only two parachutes, instead of the normal three.Image Credit: NASA.
Orion's parachutes are designed to open in stages, which is called reefing, to manage the stresses on the parachutes after they are deployed. The reefing stages allow the parachutes to sequentially open, first at 54 percent of the parachutes' full diameter, and then at 73 percent. This test examined how the parachutes would perform if the second part of the sequence was skipped.
The second scenario was a failure to deploy one of Orion's three main parachutes, requiring the spacecraft to land with only two. Orion landed on the desert floor at a speed of almost 33 feet per second, which is the maximum designed touchdown speed of the spacecraft.
Since 2007, the Orion program has conducted a vigorous parachute air and ground test program and provided the chutes for NASA's successful pad abort test in 2010. Lessons learned from this experience have improved Orion's parachute system.
{...}
NASA Press Release: RELEASE : 11-423 - NASA Conducts Orion Parachute Testing For Orbital Test Flight
Parabolic Arc: NASA Conducts Successful Parachute Test of Orion
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NASA:
Orion Drop Test - Jan. 06, 2012
After six months of testing, an 18,000 pound (8,165 kg) Orion mockup took its final splash into NASA Langley Research Center's Hydro Impact Basin on Jan. 6.
Orion, the next deep space exploration vehicle, will carry astronauts into space, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel, and ensure safe re-entry and landing.
The testing, which began in July 2011, simulated different water landing scenarios and took into account different velocities, parachute deployments, entry angles, sea states and wind conditions that Orion could face when landing in the Pacific Ocean.
{colsp=2}
|
{colsp=2}
The January 6 test represented worst case landing for an abort scenario in rough seas. The test impact conditions simulated all parachutes being deployed with a high impact pitch of 43 degrees. The capsule traveled approximately 47 mph (75.6 kph) before splashing into the basin and rolling over into the Stable 2 position.
This type of landing scenario isn't likely to occur during actual vehicle operation, but is essential for the validation of analytical models. As was the case with Apollo, the Orion flight design will feature an onboard up-righting system.
{...}
Orion Drop Test - Jan. 06, 2012
After six months of testing, an 18,000 pound (8,165 kg) Orion mockup took its final splash into NASA Langley Research Center's Hydro Impact Basin on Jan. 6.
Orion, the next deep space exploration vehicle, will carry astronauts into space, provide emergency abort capability, sustain the crew during space travel, and ensure safe re-entry and landing.
The testing, which began in July 2011, simulated different water landing scenarios and took into account different velocities, parachute deployments, entry angles, sea states and wind conditions that Orion could face when landing in the Pacific Ocean.
Click on images to enlarge
|
{colsp=2}
The Jan. 06, 2012, Orion test article water landing drop test.
The January 6 test represented worst case landing for an abort scenario in rough seas. The test impact conditions simulated all parachutes being deployed with a high impact pitch of 43 degrees. The capsule traveled approximately 47 mph (75.6 kph) before splashing into the basin and rolling over into the Stable 2 position.
This type of landing scenario isn't likely to occur during actual vehicle operation, but is essential for the validation of analytical models. As was the case with Apollo, the Orion flight design will feature an onboard up-righting system.
{...}
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Aviation Week: ESA Pondering ATV-Based Orion Service Module
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SPACE.com: New Deep Space Capsule Passes NASA Chief's Inspection
Aviation Week: Targets For Orion Visits Remain To Be Set
Aviation Week: Targets For Orion Visits Remain To Be Set
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Luke Skywalker
Rebel Alliance Hero
What kind of engines is it using? it looks like a modified version of the one that the Apollo CSM is using.
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astrosammy
Dash!
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Universe Today: Orion Capsule Embarks on Cross Country Public Tour
