What you want to see in the Next release of Orbiter

csanders

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With all this talk of addons, maybe a built-in addon manager may be in order.

Anyway, I want
-collision detection, with damage model (i.e. rip the solar panels off the ISS if you hit them, while your craft sustains damage to the heat shield tiles)
-system failures
-ability to wander large space ships and space stations, like a first person shooter

Combine all 3, and one could have the opportunity to do repairs inside ships, or through EVAs. Brings a new meaning to the phrase "orbital mechanics."

-Maybe include an ability to have a "sustained" universe. So when you quit, and come back a day later, a day has passed "in game." So one day you may come home, start the game, and a "WARNING - base alpha has sustained reactor damage. Crew needs evacuation!" message at mission control. Oh yeah, also want some sort of "mission control" system, but I digress. So then you have to spend the night saving everyone.
 

Tommy

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Many of the "ideas" I've seen in this thread already exist - and many more are already possible.

Orbiter has one of the most complete (and well documented) API's I've ever seen. The possibilities that already exist have only begun to be used.

I, like many of us, have a dream of the "ultimate" game - and my vision of this differs from the vision of many - if not most - other orbinauts. It incorporates elements of RPGs, transport/trader sims, 4X games, and vehicle sims.

My "vision" goes something like this:

You are a young person who has just reached adulthood, and have joined the "teamster's guild". You attend "school" - a short tutorial on operating forklifts and cranes, etc. You take your "cargo handlers" test - where you load a few craft, drive a few forklift "missions", truck driver missions, etc. Once you get your "license" you get a job and set a schedule where you allot time for work, socializing, etc -sort of like "The Sims". You can then sort of "fast forward" and make money and friends. Once you get some cash, you could buy a truck and go to the "guild office" and take a contract to, say, pick up a load of widgets at factory X and deliver them to warehouse Y. You would actually drive the mission once to establish a "route" which can then be "auto'd" so you can fast forward again. Once you get some more cash, you can buy another truck and hire a friend to drive it for you. You would also rent an office - and take on another contract. Fast forward again until you have the cash to expand, etc. As you gain cash you can go back to school to get a pilot's license, rent a warehouse of your own, and essentially set up a ground based transport company, expand into a air transport, and eventually into space transport. Each time you would have to actually fly/drive the mission to establish the "route", and then you could hire another person to perform that route. Eventually you rent space at an airport, then a spaceport, etc. Once you a space vehicle, you can explore other planets/moons, create mines/factories/bases there, etc.

You would be able to walk around the bases, visit bars (to get "rumors", meet people, possibly fulfill a story line, etc.) All of your assets, employees, vessels, etc would be managed by your computer "tablet", etc. Essentially allowing you to build a factory/transport/trade network (and solve whatever mystery is presented by the story line).

I think you get he idea.

Pretty much all of this is already possible - but difficult. The First Person (RPG) part, "Sims" part, ground and air transport stuff would be handled by a game engine other than Orbiter. OrbiterNG would actually only be used to perform the math to simulate the spacegoing vessels and stations, etc.

But that's MY dream - and not everyone shares that dream.

Orbiter's biggest strength is in the modularization of it's elements. Having the sound and graphics done by modules (rather than in the core) makes this possible.

I like the open source model - but I've also seen many great apps get "forked" to death. I like that Martin is focused on the physics core - it allows for great flexibility without confining us to only one person's "dream". I don't care about space combat - but others do - and I would like to see us all get what we want without being forced to deal with things we don't want.

Sound and graphics don't need to be handled by the core - and shouldn't be (except for basic graphics for those who want a pure simulator). Collision detection (both vessel - vessel and vessel - terrain) and perhaps weather are probably best handled by the core - but most everything else should be handled by modules - so people can have the experience they want - not the one that someone else thinks is best. From what I've read, Martin is already working on these features.

I'm perfectly content to have Martin working on core features only. He has handed us the tools (API and documentation) to do the rest ourselves - and on a golden platter. We have only ourselves to blame for not taking advantage of the gifts he has given us.

After all, not everyone wants the RPG, Transport Sim, economic simulation, etc.

For those of us who do - we should get off our lazy butts and develop them ourselves rather than expect Martin to do it for us. Isn't he doing enough already? And for free?


You are a young
 
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Urwumpe

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Yes, but not everything is best solved with the Add-on SDK. That should not be forgotten.

Especially in the aerodynamics department, there are many conditions where the lift functions don't converge properly despite delivering accurate numbers.
 

Delta4

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Okay. Here goes:
Weather like lightning, hurricanes, etc.

Collision detection

Mission Control

ATCs

A radio for communicating with other vessels. For example, you're in the AR-01 and want your DG-IV to deorbit and land on its own. You use the radio's preset commands to tell it to. This would require some good AI, however.

Actual water and seas.

Ships, like aircraft carriers.

No-fly zones, restricted airspace, etc.

You get the idea.
 

C3PO

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Especially in the aerodynamics department, there are many conditions where the lift functions don't converge properly despite delivering accurate numbers.

I don't know enough about hypersonic flight modeling to explain why, but most orbiter flight models have too little drag at high altitudes compared to the real hardware.

The plasma effect doesn't really behave like the real thing. NASA footage during STS reentries show small flashes of plasma very high where the dynamic is close to zero. Even during ascents small puffs of plasma can be seen post MECO.
I wonder if introducing TAS in the plasma model could replicate this. The dynamic pressure determines the spawn rate of the "puffs", but a certain airspeed is required to produce the effect.
 

Urwumpe

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It is very often because the aerodynamic models of the spacecraft make no difference between subsonic and supersonic flight. At supersonic flight, you can have slightly higher drag (in some configurations even less drag), but generally much lower lift.
 

C3PO

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It is very often because the aerodynamic models of the spacecraft make no difference between subsonic and supersonic flight. At supersonic flight, you can have slightly higher drag (in some configurations even less drag), but generally much lower lift.

Is it possible to replicate the supersonic model in a dll vessel? At least for the "usual" flight attitudes? It's a bit much to demand a full aerodynamic model from Martin, all the way from subsonic via transonic, supersonic to hypersonic. :)
I suspect that the usual pressure difference theories are fairly useless at those speeds, and it depends more on the deflection of the airstream.

I can live without a full model because I know how small the difference is compared to the work required to implement it. However the change to the plasma effect should be a bit easier to do.
 

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Is it possible to replicate the supersonic model in a dll vessel? At least for the "usual" flight attitudes? It's a bit much to demand a full aerodynamic model from Martin, all the way from subsonic via transonic, supersonic to hypersonic. :)
I suspect that the usual pressure difference theories are fairly useless at those speeds, and it depends more on the deflection of the airstream.

I can live without a full model because I know how small the difference is compared to the work required to implement it. However the change to the plasma effect should be a bit easier to do.

Yes, simply react on the Mach number parameter. For example have not just tables for "CL by AOA" but "CL by AOA by Mach number" and interpolate between the values.

I currently have such a problem to solve here, with a few more dimensions in the lift functions... try to write a lift function code generator in Java, but not yet successful, it is a lot of metamathematics.
 

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I think the general trend in Orbiter recently has been not necessarily adding features, but adding support for developers. A prime example of this is the separation of the graphics engine from the physics engine. So while I would love to see all sorts of features such as interstellar flight and collision detection/terrain, I think adding support for these things so that they could be implemented by other developers would be more than sufficient. Currently, creating something like Orbiter Galaxy requires a lot of "hacks" and it would be nice to have more support for things like this (such as a different implementation of solar systems). Martin doesn't need to develop interstellar flight all on his own, just make it possible for other developers to work on it. All that being said, it would be nice to have more realistic atmosphere models for both Earth and other planets. I think that would greatly add to the experience.
 

TMac3000

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I didn't have time to read this whole thread, so I'm not sure if this has been said here...but I know it's been said elsewhere.

I want to see a Linux version of Orbiter.

It doesn't need to have collision detection, ATC, interstellar travel, or any of that jazz. I would be happy just to have one more thing in my life that I don't need Windows for.
 

Kyle

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I'd like to have a realistic cloud setting, they don't even have to do anything but it would be nice to be launching and see some cumulus or cumulus nimbus clouds in the area or on top of you.
 

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-Maybe include an ability to have a "sustained" universe.

I like the idea of a sustained universe. There are some things which can be simulated with huge time gaps such as the decaying of reactor fuel. Thats because the behavior is quite linear and we can extrapolate the current state from a past state for indefinitely long time periods.

However there are aspects of such a universe which cannot accept huge time gaps. Such as ships landing and taking off from bases, people moving around and interacting, mining operations etc which is non-linear. These require continuous computation driven by an AI when the user is away. One can take certain liberties to make these interactions linear however, for example ships can take off and land from bases in the interval of a month, but this need not be actually simulated through a Orbiter vessel. When the user comes back after a month we calculate how many times the ship would have visited and increase the base's supply accordingly. Again we calculate how much the people in the base would have consumed and decrease it. But what if we find that the amount consumed is far in excess of what was supplied finally ? Then everybody on the base should be dead !!

But that would not have been the case in the real world. An emergency shipment from Earth would have averted the tragedy :). So our extrapolation is wrong. A continuous simulation could have allowed the AI to trigger such an emergency shipment from Earth etc etc.. The simulation resolution is too low :p and we will be skipping too many events if we allow a scenario to resume after a month.

But we could also do a fast forward where we actually do a month's worth of simulation at say 100 times the real world time step(100x time acceleration),so the user "catches" up in say 8 hours. That would be a lot more accurate then providing the simulation logic with a time step of 30 days :p

Probably a careful tradeoff of simulation accuracy and assumptions can make a "sustained" universe possible.
 
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Sorpenderin

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here is what i want to see in the next orbiter release

STUFF THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE BUT PROBUBLY WONT HAPPEN
-intersteller travel
-alien lifeforms

-revalistic instead of newtonian flight
-simulated water that youre ship can sink in
- ability to build your own spacecraft out of parts
-advanced ships with more controls simaler to the xr seres and dgiv
-intergalactic travel(i know i am already planning an addon but built in intergalactic travel would work better
STUFF THAT i think MIGHT HAPPEN
-collision detection and mountins
-3d stars
- more ships that are realistic and not so realistic
STUFF THAT PROBUBLY WILL HAPPEN(i hope)
hi res planets and ships
-niceer looking planets
 

jedidia

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- ability to build your own spacecraft out of parts

Hey, you're lucky... give me two more months and we should definitaley be done with that :lol:
 
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