Yet another new simpit

Robb Bates

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Triple somersault with a rebound off the main panel.

Or not. OK, I just step over the back corner onto the seat. I'm pretty sure I'm going to add a step somewhere since that technique is still a bit ungainly.

Robb
 

Robb Bates

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More updates:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbates/3830313726/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbates/3829516289/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbates/3830313834/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbates/3830313894/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbates/3830313926/

OK, first, ignore the messy work area. :D

I mounted the touch screen and USB keypad. I also put some speakers in, though they're not wired up yet. The USB keypad was interesting. Like most keyboards, it's a layer of plastic keys, silicone rubber "springs", membrane ciruitry and a metal backplate which holds everything together with screws from underneath. Well, I drilled some holes where the assembly screws would go and then screwed the metal plate down to the panel from the top (selectively placed small screws). Then layered everything up with the membrane ribbon cable slipping through a cut out slot. I then put the assembly screws back in from underneath the panel through the predrilled holes. Results: a very nice looking keypad that is magically attached to the panel.

I've been having no luck wiring up the joystick to a USB joystick circuitry. The original pots are 10k and the ones I'm using are 100k. There's just not enough current for the joysticks ADC and the signal is all jittery and drifting all over the place. I also had all kinds of problems with centering and full scale swing. After too much hair pulling (not that I have much left to pull), I just clipped the wires. I torn down, cleaned and rebuilt the potentiometers for the joystick which improved the signal greatly, but still not enough. So what is my solution? Mjoy16! Yes, I'm going to build one (or ten). Google it if you haven't heard of it. Being a PCB designer, I was cringing at the provided PCB layout. So of course, I redesigned it. This Wednesday when I get paid, I'll be ordering some microcontrollers, switches, buttons, LEDs and other parts to build the Mjoy16 and populate my simpit's panels. I still need to cut the panels. I'm probably going to go with plexiglass or lexan so that at some point I can backlight them. Still need to research the best way to do that. Any suggestions? Links?

Still having to climb over and step on the seat. Don't really like having to do that.

Oh, and it needs a coat or two of paint. "Spaceship Grey" of course.

Robb
 

yagni01

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Very nice :cheers:

Can you give us a close-up of the keypad, Mr. DeMille? :)

I had not run across this MJoy16 before. It looks interesting, especially the rotary encoder part. I have not been able to find inexpensive rotary interfaces for my radios and autopilots. Keep us posted on that little bugger.
 

Robb Bates

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Sorry, a bit fuzzy. But it's all I have here at work.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbates/3829752499/

The Mjoy16, combined with Autohotkey and Fly By Wire should be everything you need!

The rotary encoders should be useful for many selector knobs. Or you could make an elevator trim or hover balance wheel. It doesn't necessarily have to be a "knob".

Robb
 

yagni01

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Sorry, a bit fuzzy. But it's all I have here at work.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbates/3829752499/
Very cool. Your stick is high enough you didn't have problems accidentally pressing buttons with your wrist?
The Mjoy16, combined with Autohotkey and Fly By Wire should be everything you need!
Oh, never say everything! ;)
You're still missing the most important thing to eliminate 2D panels - annunciators. Although RemoteMFD could help with some of that.

Also (for me), the biggest missing piece of FBW is that you can't assign custom thruster groups to axes, which means no throttle for scram jets, Shuttle-A aux pods, etc.

The rotary encoders should be useful for many selector knobs. Or you could make an elevator trim or hover balance wheel. It doesn't necessarily have to be a "knob".
Indeed. I got around the selector knob issue with a resistor ladder wired to a rotary switch attached to the analog input of a Phidget. The rest is in my custom software for actual value selection. Sounds like you could do something similar with the MJoy16 firmware.
 

Robb Bates

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No problem pressing buttons. You'll notice the keypad is inboard a bit. Besides, the joystick grip is plenty high enough.

Yeah, everything is a big word.

I'm working on the annuciators. Assuming there's enough in the SDK to interface to the annuciators, the plan is to completely (another big word) eliminate any onscreen panels.

Which knobs are you using with rotary switches. HUD selection? RCS ROT/LIN?

I'm going to try to avoid any turning style knobs with pointers. There's no way to set them with software. If at all, I'll try to use buttons with status LEDs. Like RCS Rot/Lin, I'll use two buttons; one for Rot, one for Lin. Only one will be lit, or both will be off for RCS OFF.

Robb
 

yagni01

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I'm working on the annuciators. Assuming there's enough in the SDK to interface to the annuciators, the plan is to completely (another big word) eliminate any onscreen panels.
If you're speaking of the OrbiterSDK, you'll have access to HUD, RCS, F/CTL, and Navmodes
but not much else. If you look at the Orb:Connect documentation, you'll notice the differences when you compare available vessel information from the SHIP and the XCTL commands. This is why I exclusively fly vessels that implement that interface. The good thing is its public, so any vessel dev could use it, the bad is that no one other than Doug has. Re-writing Shuttle-A to expose that is on my TODO list, but its way down.
Which knobs are you using with rotary switches. HUD selection? RCS ROT/LIN?

I'm going to try to avoid any turning style knobs with pointers. There's no way to set them with software. If at all, I'll try to use buttons with status LEDs. Like RCS Rot/Lin, I'll use two buttons; one for Rot, one for Lin. Only one will be lit, or both will be off for RCS OFF.
HUD selection, plus internal switching to reduce the number of controls in a couple places. RCS, F/CTL selection will be pushbuttons. So I assume you'll press the lit one to switch the system off. That would take a little more software than an on/off button and a rot/lin button, because you'll have to read the current state to make a decision of the command to send..
 

Robb Bates

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I had mentioned earlier about the DG IV, which is pretty cool from the systems (Power, Fuel, Life support) viewpoint, but I'm really starting to like the XR series. The Ravenstar is pretty sweet! I think with all the interfacability (is that a word?), the XR series is going to be the vessel(s) of choice for my pit. Though I'm playing with a concept of selectively enable-able panels based on the current vessel. i.e. Certain panels would be backlit if they are functional or not backlit if not. There are a common set of controls that pretty much all vessels use (landing gear, airbrakes, RCS) and those would always be enabled. The less common stuff would be on a separate panel(s) that would only be backlit (and therefore functional) if that vessel uses it.

Yes, press the lit one to turn the system off.

Robb

---------- Post added at 01:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 PM ----------

Another thought is for something like the power systems, if a vessel didn't have or implement that, I could still interface the controls and lights via my own software such that if, for example, the APU is not running, then I would not be able to open/close the nosecone until I turn the APU on. A bit of a workaround, but there's plenty of stuff you could do in software.

Robb
 

yagni01

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Ya, I L-U-V the Ravenstar. I'm hoping version 2 will give me access to the consumables replenishment system (hope, hope, fingers crossed).
Although there are alot of similar systems, the core (read OrbiterSDK) doesn't provide anything vessel specific (gear, radiator, docking port, etc.). What we have are toggle commands useable via keystroke. What we don't have is the system state. For example, we can "press the key" to toggle the gear, but we don't know where the gear is; up, down, or in-between (or broken). Same with the other bits. Lets say you used a momentary toggle or rocker. Press up to raise, press down to lower. They both send the same keystroke, so it destroys the illusion when your gear is down, you press down, the gear goes up and you go splat :( A pushbutton would work fine, but without the feedback of indicators, you don't know what its doing. OK, I know its indicated on the HUD, but its not the same immersive level as having 'three green' on your MIP.

Regarding your power systems, except for XR vessels, how do you know you have one? You'd have to create a systems table for each vessel class. Doable, but again: what state is it in? And can you control it with a keystroke? Many vessel systems only respond to mouse clicks.
 

Robb Bates

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Any ETA on the Ravenstar MkII?

Yeah, I was pondering that. I've been playing with TouchBuddy with my touchscreen which has a neat Orbiter interface. Many of the controls on it will be implemented in hardware, so I plan on using TouchBuddy for those custom only-on-one vessel controls that I wouldn't want to implement in hardware buttons. It has the same toggle problem. It shows the gear up when in fact it is down. It does have a feature that allows you to toggle the displayed status without sending the keystroke to Orbiter. I could do the same with my hardware. I'd have a button that I'd hold down to inhibit any keystroke sending, but it would still change the indicated status. So if my 'three green' is lit on my panel but my wheels are up, I could hold down the inhibit button, and click the wheels up button (or rocker/toggle). That would change the indicated status on my panel so it would match the Orbiter status. That doesn't solve the problem of broken gear, or no APU running. Hmmm, your software could monitor whether your APU is running (i.e. did you toggle the APU on via the hardware button?). But then you'd basically be re-inventing the vessel in your simpit software. Yet another bridge to cross.

Robb
 

yagni01

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Any ETA on the Ravenstar MkII?
No, I think Doug and Steve are pretty much limited by RL right now.
Yeah, I was pondering that. I've been playing with TouchBuddy with my touchscreen which has a neat Orbiter interface. Many of the controls on it will be implemented in hardware, so I plan on using TouchBuddy for those custom only-on-one vessel controls that I wouldn't want to implement in hardware buttons. It has the same toggle problem. It shows the gear up when in fact it is down. It does have a feature that allows you to toggle the displayed status without sending the keystroke to Orbiter. I could do the same with my hardware. I'd have a button that I'd hold down to inhibit any keystroke sending, but it would still change the indicated status. So if my 'three green' is lit on my panel but my wheels are up, I could hold down the inhibit button, and click the wheels up button (or rocker/toggle). That would change the indicated status on my panel so it would match the Orbiter status. That doesn't solve the problem of broken gear, or no APU running. Hmmm, your software could monitor whether your APU is running (i.e. did you toggle the APU on via the hardware button?). But then you'd basically be re-inventing the vessel in your simpit software. Yet another bridge to cross.

Robb
Ya, I was wondering about that when I looked closely at the image you posted. Where did that come from? With the screen you say? Can we get a screenshot of it? I'd be interested in a close look.

No, the Orb:Connect/XRVesselCtrl interfaces have all that, so you display the actual vessel state, and set a specific state. My switches, since I'm using on/off toggles, may get out of sync, but if they do, I can flip the switch and it would have no effect on the vessel because I send a 'open' or 'close' command rather than a toggle.

With that inhibit button, you've removed some of the advantage to using PBs rather than toggles, since you're manually syncing the hardware anyway. What you still have is less panel real estate if the indicators are part of the switch (ala Korry).
 

Hielor

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What's that on the touchscreen?

As for power, would it be possible/feasible to use the vessel's power system for those vessels that have it, and then use your own (managed in the simpit) for other vessels?
 

Robb Bates

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The touchscreen has the Orbiter profile of "TouchBuddy". http://touch-buddy.com I can post a screen shot when I get home.

That's pretty much what I was eluding to. The simpit doesn't have to entirely rely on Orbiter for it's functionality. I can implement a "Power System" in my simpit software.

Robb
 

Robb Bates

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Well, I finally got my parts in. Last night I assembled, programmed and tested my MJoy16-C1. It works!

I haven't fully tested everything, but Windows saw it as a joystick and the analog axes fluctuated when I touched the pins and some buttons lit up when I shorted some pins together. So it's doing what it's supposed to. I'm going to build another one at some point. The Labor Day weekend is coming up and I've taken Tuesday off, so I'm hoping to make a good chunk of progress. I might actually have a funtional joystick and throttle. No rudders yet. :( Considering the cost of a good set of rudder pedals with proportional brakes, I'm probably going to end up making my own. But that's yet another item on my to-do list.

I'll post pictures and more results when I get a chance to wire the whole thing up.

Robb
 

Robb Bates

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Another find from GoodWill... A subwoofer PC speaker set for $15. It's missing a speaker, but that's never stopped me before. I mainly got it for the amp and subwoofer part. The regular treble speakers I'm going to rip out of a cheap set of PC speakers I have.

Man, if anyone is building a sim pit, you MUST have a subwoofer. It makes ALL the difference. The vibrations in my simpit from hitting full throttle forces me to do the evil mad scientist laugh! MWAAAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!

And when you open or close any of the doors, there's a reassuring thump right at the end. Never heard that with cheap speakers!

Some tips on building MJoy16:

1) Don't short any wires. Duh.
2) The 1N4733 diodes listed in the parts list is wrong. They should be 1n4728. The 1n4733 are +5.1V Zeners and the 1n4728 are +3.3V zeners which are correct.
3) Double and Triple check your ISP connections to the parallel port connector. Potentially very confusing.
4) Don't forget to jumper pin 15 to pin 16 of the ATMega16. It's easy to forget.
5) So far 0.01uF caps instead of 0.1uF caps seems to work fine. I didn't have any 0.1uF in my parts bin.

More updates after this weekend.

Robb
 

yagni01

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Man, if anyone is building a sim pit, you MUST have a subwoofer. It makes ALL the difference. The vibrations in my simpit from hitting full throttle forces me to do the evil mad scientist laugh! MWAAAAHAAHAAHAAA!!!!
Since I lost my home theater, I have my BIG sub behind the seat. :11: Unfortunately my wife won't let me do more than crack it.:( I tend to fly when shes not home. :speakcool:
 

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it would it be possible to build a panel with swithes for things like landing gear and payload pay, radiators and such, i hate working in the 2d panel view. so it should be possible right? and how.

I also am on a very low buget and little space
 

Robb Bates

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:blink:...

---------- Post added at 04:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:09 PM ----------

Please read the wiki regarding simpits.

Robb
 

dnt462

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Spent some time reading but i cant figure out how to get mouse presses to work
 
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