OS WARS MEGA THREAD (Now debating proprietary vs. open-source!)

[n72.75]

Mac OS. :lol:

Darren

Windows Vista.

 

[Mantis]

Mac OS. :lol:

Darren

For sure. The "Snow Leopard" version had a major bug that erased all your files if anyone signed into your computer using a guest account.

 

[Pyromaniac605]

Windows Vista.

Vista is a piece of .

Darren

Edit: @Moach because everyone knows that Metric is the best measurment system ever!

 

[Tommy]

Been a long while since I looked at this thread, but since I have I'll answer a couple of older posts directed at me.

Heilor said:

Wait, so, it doesn't work? So what's the problem? If it doesn't work, then you shouldn't have any trouble creating content without that "protected" flag.

No, because Microsoft won't sign any software or driver that doesn't implement "protected path", whether you want it or not. While I can create a final product that doesn't require protected path, the software used to CREATE that product does use protected path. This seems to have been changed in Win 7 - but only if you use unsigned drivers for your audio card. Using signed drivers for any of the quality cards (such as ANY Creative Labs card, etc) ASIO drivers don't work. Using high latency drivers is NOT an option. Most users aren't comfortable installing a driver when they are warned that it isn't signed and may damage their computer - when that warning is given for drivers that are safe and effective but simply don't adhere to MS's protected path rules it is a clear case of "tilting" the playing field in favor of the manufactures willing to sell out.

MS lobbied to have a law passed requiring any digital device capable of playing media to have a Trusted Platform Module chip (actually they lobbied for their own Palladium chip, which didn't quite fit the Trusted Computing spec) built in. This was claimed to be only useful for file encryption for security reasons, but also marketed it to content owners as a hardware enforced DRM scheme. They failed to get it passed after several acedemics in the computer science field and security field protested, and lobbied against it. I don't have time to look up references, but do a bit of research on TPC modules and Paladium and see for yourself. You've acknowledged that this isn't your area of experience, please educate yourself better before you imply that I'm making things up.

I think you need a source for this claim too. I find it rather hard to believe that anyone would seriously consider a law requiring all digital media players to run Microsoft software.

See above. It was considered, and rejected. Even the computer illiterate politicians didn't trust MS enough to allow this. Don't forget that they "seriously considered", and ended up passing a law stating that you can't sell a "Computer" without an OS - it can only be called a "Kit" or "Parts", - and MS was the force that pushed that through (this was before the anti-trust charges, probably why they weren't trusted the second time)

To several other people: In absolutely NONE of my posts have I claimed that Apple is any more respectful of my rights as a computer owner, I advocated for Linux. Yet the most common response was "How is Apple any better?", the common fallback of MS fanboi's when MS's draconian DRM schemes are questioned. Just because Apple is worse doesn't make MS a saint.

To the newer posters, yes the Linux file systems can be confusing - if you are used to the Windows way. Once you stop trying to understand Linux from a Windows point of view, it makes far more sense than a directory system still based on an obsolete OS (DOS). The theatre I work at part time uses one of those old "Beta-Brite" LED signs. It has a serial port, but there has never been any way to connect it to a Windows PC (no driver was ever written). A Linux PC can drive that sign, including giving the current time, weather, news, and sports scores (from the web) using a simple shell script by simply by writing text to a "file" (the serial port" - no driver needed.

 

[Eccentrus]

well, every OS fails at being sapient, and I would vote for the HumanConscience OS to be the single worst OS of all time XD

 

[Ghostrider]

well, every OS fails at being sapient, and I would vote for the HumanConscience OS to be the single worst OS of all time XD

At least the user interface works.

 

[Xyon]

For sure. The "Snow Leopard" version had a major bug that erased all your files if anyone signed into your computer using a guest account.

Seriously? I never heard about that, but there again, I don't use a Mac, so I guess I wouldn't be looking for stories like that.

I stand by my original point, which I forget if I posted it in here or not. My opinion is that no OS is "better" than another - it is a matter of which contains the tools (Or which is the best suitable package) for you to do whatever you need it to. For my gaming rig, that's Windows 7, and for my servers, that's currently a heavily modified (read: guts ripped out) variant of Debian Lenny.

The whole premise of the argument seems to be "<My OS> is better than <your OS> because <insert thing it does / mentality of creators here>". I really fail to understand this premise - if it works for you, use it, and understand that for others, different operating systems may work better. Unless you happen to work for one of the companies producing these OSes in the advertising department, there's really no need to attempt to convince people to use one system over the other.

 

[Keatah]

O-F Staff Note: These two posts moved here from the How do I use a Linux Live CD thread.

========

Thanks! For fixing a problem that I may run into later when I put win-7 on this other system I got laying around.

But it also begs a question. While I appreciate everybody wanting to experiment around with linux and non-windows o/s'es and try to come up with a good alternative.

Isn't windows really the best of the best?

I mean consider the amount of software (Orbiter, for one), the amount of utilities, the support from m$(ahem!!), the sheer market penetration, the documentation..etc.. I mean everybody knows windows!

I ask all my buddies and new acquaintances what o/s they got going. And it's always windows. windows windows windows.. and on and on. And to a lesser extent, mac osx.

When it comes to linux, The folks that keep messing around with it as a desktop alternative are sys-admins and the hardcore hobbyists. My experience with linux has been fraught with trouble getting device drivers and generally just making it work.

But since I keep hearing about it, I'd like to try it out, what is a good build that will support the widest variety of hardware?

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Well, to avoid a "my OS is better than yours flame war" I think it's best to let an individual (or corporation) determin what OS works best for them...
For example, due to sheer marketing power Windows became the elephant that it is, many will say that Mac is better, but really they both acomplish similar tasks.
Windows became the "standard" I suppose due to price of the computers, I remember an IBM clone costing $2K or more, Apples were similarly priced, then the market exploded and Apple held onto their proprietary(?) stuff, while the clones became cheaper and cheaper.
When I worked at GE, we still had Lotus Symphony and 123 running under some oddball version of DOS. We also had the server running UNIX, with Windows running "inside" it. At the time UNIX was much more stable than Windows for the tasking. At a combustion turbine site I came from, the fire protection system used WARP.
It seems no matter what, due to all the text based old-schoolers retiring or otherwise getting out of the game, for a computers "front-end", and by that I mean "user interface" to be a success, it's going to have to "look like" and "act like" Windows, because that's what most people are accustomed to seeing.
As far as Windows being the "best of the best", I'd have to say "not necessarily". Whatever OS you choose those, enjoy yourself, that's all that is really important, right?

 

[natey787]

Hmm..
Probe is an electronic device.
It must have some kind of operating system...

What OS does Probe run?

 

[Rtyh-12]

The whole premise of the argument seems to be "<My OS> is better than <your OS> because <insert thing it does / mentality of creators here>". I really fail to understand this premise...

I'll try to explain it.

WINDOWZZ IS BETEER TH YORZ OS EVEN IF YOU UZE WINDOWZZ.

 

[computerex]

Linux is better Windoz sux end of argument.

 

[Wishbone]

The probe uses VxWorks...

 

[Ghostrider]

Meh. OZ for teh win.

 

[Xyon]

I'll try to explain it.

WINDOWZZ IS BETEER TH YORZ OS EVEN IF YOU UZE WINDOWZZ.

MAH PEESEE IS BEAT YOURS.

Obviously. Basically, your point seems to be that the argument is basically an unfounded, pride-based argument, akin to the "My dad could beat up your dad" arguments we used to have in primary (US-users read elementary) school?

 

[garyw]

Which OS is best?

Whichever one does the job you need it to do the best. Simples.

I use Windows, Linux, Solaris and occasionally Mac simply because each one has strenghts and weaknesses. I'm lucky that I can pick which OS I need to use for a particular job.

 

[Linguofreak]

O-F Staff Note: These two posts moved here from the How do I use a Linux Live CD thread.

========

Thanks! For fixing a problem that I may run into later when I put win-7 on this other system I got laying around.

But it also begs a question. While I appreciate everybody wanting to experiment around with linux and non-windows o/s'es and try to come up with a good alternative.

Isn't windows really the best of the best?

I mean consider the amount of software (Orbiter, for one),

A fair amount of software (Including Orbiter with OGLAClient nowadays) will run on Linux with the help of Wine.

the amount of utilities, the support from m$(ahem!!), the sheer market penetration, the documentation..etc.. I mean everybody knows windows!

Depends on what you mean by "the best of the best". As far as how well it's programmed, it's nothing special (and in the old days, it was horrid). It does have an advantage in marketing, market penetration, existing software, and number of vendors who sell it pre-installed (which is why Linux has a reputation for being such a geek OS: People generally set it up themselves rather than buying a box with it already installed and set up).

Windows won out more because of good business sense, good marketing, and sometimes underhanded tactics on the part of Microsoft than because of being an exceptionally solid OS.

I ask all my buddies and new acquaintances what o/s they got going. And it's always windows. windows windows windows.. and on and on. And to a lesser extent, mac osx.

The thing is, popularity does not always equal quality.

When it comes to linux, The folks that keep messing around with it as a desktop alternative are sys-admins and the hardcore hobbyists.

This is for several reasons: One is just a cultural issue: It has a reputation for being a geeky OS, and so even though it's not quite as geeky as people think, only the sysadmins and hobbyists aren't scared off by it. There's also the issue of experienced users not always giving the most beginner-friendly advice. Another issue is the driver issue (which I cover in more detail below). And then there's the fact that people who understand computers better tend to understand better how some of Microsoft's business practices (such as things like pushing "Trusted Computing") screw over their customers, and are sometimes more affected by those business practices than other groups, and thus many tend to avoid Windows on principle, even if it would be better for what they'd use it for.

And then there's just the fact that even learning to use Windows takes a while (but it's something most of my generation learned with adult help in childhood), and switching OS's means learning new things no matter how geeky or ungeeky the new OS is.

My experience with linux has been fraught with trouble getting device drivers and generally just making it work.

This is where finding a vendor, such as System76, that sells systems with Linux pre-installed comes in. Even Windows can give you a headache with drivers and such when you make a clean install of it on a machine. Hardware vendors have whole teams of people whose job it is to resolve things like driver issues, and once they have a working install on one machine, they just copy the drive image over to all the other machines with the same hardware.

But since I keep hearing about it, I'd like to try it out, what is a good build that will support the widest variety of hardware?

Well, the one that I've used most is Ubuntu, and I've generally been fairly satisfied with it. I believe it's the most popular distro at the moment and has been given fairly high marks for beginner-friendliness. I have had some problems with graphics drivers on it (on our Desktop, which has an ATI card, while my laptop, which has had no trouble, has an NVidia card), but I think part of that has to do with ATI having poor OpenGL support in general* (Orbiter/OGLAClient runs slower natively on our desktop than under Wine my laptop despite the desktop being the more powerful machine and the laptop running it under a compatibility layer. Orbiter/DirectX still runs faster on the Desktop. The X-Plane 9 Demo for Linux actually runs on my laptop without problems, whereas the Demo for Windows suffers graphics glitches on the desktop that make it entirely unplayable).

But don't go with Ubuntu just because it's popular. Windows is popular too. Try it out, see if it works well. If it doesn't, try out other distros.


*It also possibly has to do with ATI being crummy in general. When I first tried running Orbiter/DirectX (OGLAClient was in development at the time, but was still getting the bugs worked out of it) on our desktop under Windows after we got the machine, it bluescreened, and it turned out this was the result of buggy ATI drivers (this *with* the machine having come with Windows, and the ATI drivers, preinstalled) and I had to download new ones. So one recommendation for getting Linux to run smoothly is "Don't use ATI" (And this may be a good recommendation in general). That said, these things can change with time, a crummy manufacturer can get its act together and a good manufacturer can start letting things slide, so it's probably good when buying a new computer to ask around about what the best cards are at the time.

 

[computerex]

The argument, "each OS has its own strengths and weaknesses, there is no better then the other" is such a cliche. Come guys, think of something original for once

 

[Xyon]

The argument, "each OS has its own strengths and weaknesses, there is no better then the other" is such a cliche. Come guys, think of something original for once

Repeated often it may be, but it's no less valid as a result. What is an OS but a collection of tools to perform common tasks? Would you take a chainsaw to hammer in a nail? Of course not.

Originality is very rare in discussions like this. More often than not, what comes out is the same argument over and over, slightly changed with time as software evolves, but always the same - "My OS is better because it does xxxxx". This of course ignores the principle that I may not need my OS to do xxxxx. I don't need my server to be able to handle complex 3D graphics, for instance, so I don't build the hardware or software around the capacity to do so. That basically is the subtext of my point. It may not be original, but I believe it is a valid point regardless, would you disagree?

 

[computerex]

I disagree.