Humor Random Comments Thread

[Urwumpe]

Sounds like a TLS problem, is that camera using an older TLS with no longer recommended cyphers?

We had such problems a lot at work in the past, because updating our software to comply to current security rules and switching to a recent java version to support the rules, meant that older software running on older JVM or OpenSSL packages was no longer able to complete a handshake with our application server.

We even had to differ between Oracle and IBM Java, because the two were not identical in respect to the supported TLS versions for a certain Java version.

 

[jedidia]

Sounds like a TLS problem, is that camera using an older TLS with no longer recommended cyphers?

Most probably. That's what I'm looking into right now. Problem is, so far I couldn't coax the server into giving me any information about what's actually going on.

 

[Urwumpe]

Most probably. That's what I'm looking into right now. Problem is, so far I couldn't coax the server into giving me any information about what's actually going on.

Do you use OpenSSL for debugging? I remember calling server and clients from my Linux workstation for verifying the TLS protocol give the right answers, but the actual command line is no longer in my brain.

 

[Linguofreak]

Problem is, so far I couldn't coax the server into giving me any information about what's actually going on.

RG-58 is getting really long in the tooth.

Have you tried twisted pair? 10BASET is a mature technology by now.



Sorry, couldn't resist...

 

[jedidia]

Do you use OpenSSL for debugging?

Going to look into potential debugging tools on Monday... So far I've just tried rebuilding the keystore, but for some reason that doesn't seem to do it. Thankfully I'm done for this week, and thankfully nobody has complained too loudly so far.

 

[Urwumpe]

Going to look into potential debugging tools on Monday... So far I've just tried rebuilding the keystore, but for some reason that doesn't seem to do it. Thankfully I'm done for this week, and thankfully nobody has complained too loudly so far.

Same here, except that my week isn't really over now. I have a day off tomorrow, but since I like to know what I am doing, I'll connect into a workshop anyway, that my coworkers down south advertised as highly interesting with lots of new stuff from the latest conference....

 

[Thunder Chicken]

This is from a BBC documentary that shows video of the Oceangate Titan support ship control room. The sound of the sub implosion is heard as a slamming sound on the deck of the ship:

Ship footage captures sound of Oceangate's Titan sub imploding

Support ship video shows the wife of Oceangate CEO Stockton Rush hearing the sound of the implosion.

www.bbc.com

 

[Linguofreak]

This is from a BBC documentary that shows video of the Ocean Gate Titan support ship control room. The sound of the sub implosion is heard as a slamming sound on the deck of the ship:

Ship footage captures sound of Oceangate's Titan sub imploding

Support ship video shows the wife of Oceangate CEO Stockton Rush hearing the sound of the implosion.

www.bbc.com

"Slam" tends to imply a fuzzier transient. The repertoire of English onomatopoeiae has a bunch of words for large-amplitude low-frequency transients (bang, slam, etc.), and a bunch of words for mid-amplitude high-frequency stuff (pop, crack), but modern technology has given us new ways to die of stupidity that involve very sharp, very loud transients. We need to invent some new words.

 

[Urwumpe]

"Slam" tends to imply a fuzzier transient. The repertoire of English onomatopoeiae has a bunch of words for large-amplitude low-frequency transients (bang, slam, etc.), and a bunch of words for mid-amplitude high-frequency stuff (pop, crack), but modern technology has given us new ways to die of stupidity that involve very sharp, very loud transients. We need to invent some new words.

Sounds like a those self-inking stamps in a German office....

 

[Linguofreak]

It's interesting to note the reaction of the two men. They know.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Sounds like a those self-inking stamps in a German office....

I hope those are less fatal.

I can't help but think of the unfortunate timing of the sound of that bang and the receipt of the text message, that must have caused a lot of confusion. The sound was easy to dismiss as some random ship noise as they received the text after it occurred. If they received the text that they were dropping the weights and 2-3 seconds later there was the bang, followed by loss of communication, that could have lead to a more immediate and sinister interpretation of events.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

I suppose it depends on which direction in time you travel?

 

[Linguofreak]

I hope those are less fatal.

I can't help but think of the unfortunate timing of the sound of that bang and the receipt of the text message, that must have caused a lot of confusion. The sound was easy to dismiss as some random ship noise as they received the text after it occurred.

Mrs. Rush seems to have interpreted it that way, but if you look at the look the seated dude gave the other guy, he knew. And whether or not the other guy knew immediately, from the way he walks off, I'm pretty sure he knew after he got that look.

That's a "let's not alarm the newly minted window, but st just went down, activate the relevant contingency plans" look.

If they received the text that they were dropping the weights and 2-3 seconds later there was the bang, followed by loss of communication, that could have lead to a more immediate and sinister interpretation of events.

I do wonder if dropping the weights may have been the immediate cause of the failure. Not causative in any way relevant to the design of the craft, just the load shift that broke the camel's back in an already degraded structure.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

I do wonder if dropping the weights may have been the immediate cause of the failure. Not causative in any way relevant to the design of the craft, just the load shift that broke the camel's back in an already degraded structure.

Unlikely, as they had time to send a message that they dropped the weights. The acceleration forces caused by dropping the weights were minuscule compared to the massive hydrostatic load on the hull.

Once the hull monitoring system started picking up damage that triggered alarms, they were as good as dead. Unless they could wave a magic wand and instantly unload themselves from 2 miles of hydrostatic pressure head, there really was no way that they could have avoided catastrophic failure. The hull monitoring system really did nothing other than ensure everyone onboard spent the last seconds of their lives in anxiety.

EDIT: What many people, including Stockton Rush, didn't/don't understand about these sorts of composite failures is that damage does NOT stop occurring even if you stop adding additional load. If you consider a panel of composite fibers in compression, due to small variations in their individual strength, at some load some of those fibers will buckle and fail. The fraction of the load that those fibers supported then gets transferred to the rest of the fibers, and some of them will then overload, buckle, and fail, causing more and more of the load to be transferred to fewer and fewer fibers until the structure fails. This failure cascade proceeds exponentially, and continues even if the overall load stays constant.

 

[Linguofreak]

Unlikely, as they had time to send a message that they dropped the weights. The acceleration forces caused by dropping the weights were minuscule compared to the massive hydrostatic load on the hull.

Had to double check the wording of their final message. Wasn't sure if they said "dropped" or "dropping". I was under the impression that their final message indicated intent to drop weights, not that the drop had been completed, but that is not the case.

In any case, I'm not so much concerned about acceleration as just flexing as loads change.

Once the hull monitoring system started picking up damage that triggered alarms, they were as good as dead. Unless they could wave a magic wand and instantly unload themselves from 2 miles of hydrostatic pressure head, there really was no way that they could have avoided catastrophic failure. The hull monitoring system really did nothing other than ensure everyone onboard spent the last seconds of their lives in anxiety.

I've never seen any credible indication that they received any warning from the hull monitoring system.

 

[Urwumpe]

've never seen any credible indication that they received any warning from the hull monitoring system.

They did according to coast guard. Four dives earlier, on the 80th dive. The data from the hull monitoring system is pretty dramatic and clearly shows the moment the hull structure started to fall apart, that they still dived four more times is plainly reckless.

 

[Linguofreak]

They did according to coast guard. Four dives earlier, on the 80th dive. The data from the hull monitoring system is pretty dramatic and clearly shows the moment the hull structure started to fall apart, that they still dived four more times is plainly reckless.

YesI have heard of that, but I believe ThunderChicken is taking about a supposed activation during the accident dive.

 

[Urwumpe]

YesI have heard of that, but I believe ThunderChicken is taking about a supposed activation during the accident dive.

I don't know if it was ever able to warn the crew BEFORE the implosion. There is little information about how the warning should work and less about the condition in which it was during the final dives.

 

[jedidia]

I just posted a question on stackoverflow, and within an hour it was edited 3 times by 2 different people "fixing" style and punctuation, and in no small parts each others edits. I can't even...

 

[Urwumpe]

I just posted a question on stackoverflow, and within an hour it was edited 3 times by 2 different people "fixing" style and punctuation, and in no small parts each others edits. I can't even...

Did somebody even consider to answer yet?