Question Aliens...Do you think they exist?

[Ghostrider]

Not really, they did not run out of digits yet. :lol: we go from 12.19.19.11.19 to the 13.0.0.0.0 in 2012. And they have still some digits left to add, if that is not a formatting issue. :lol:

Doesn't bother me. I used to buy Aztec.

 

[Urwumpe]

Doesn't bother me. I used to buy Aztec.

Aztec? Aren't the blood sacrifices for computer startup every day a bit messy now?

I began with a 32 megalith stone circle. Good old proven technology. The virgin sacrifice for getting the operating system update is just a bit hard today, since good virgins became extremely rare. Maybe I have to ask Branson.

 

[Moach]

aliens... hmm, lets see...

out there in the universe - sure enough, something, somewhere - why wouldn't there be?

here on earth? - absolutely not... i'm pretty sure i shot them all down already :hunter:

 

[RichWall]

And everyone doing head count of the solar system forgets:
Earth: ALIVE

Thanks for the clarification. I was not sure.

 

[orb]

SPACE.com: Want to Find Aliens? Look for More than Just Earth-Like Planets

 

[Cras]

The big bang theory, at best, is a simplistic and somewhat inaccurate portrayal of how things really are. Keep in mind, that according to the theory, space exploded into existence everywhere instantly. The movement of galaxies and matter we observe today is like a residual noise/motion that manifested itself after the so-called explosion.

The big bang theory does not address what happened before it happened!

It won't be possible for present-day humans to fully understand the genuine nature of the cosmos, even with the help of extra-terrestrials from another dimension or from outside our universe. Our brains are too limited. Too simple.

If you are thinking about the old Big Bang Theory, with the infinite small dot with infinite energy that explodes for no good reason, rest assured no body should believe this theory. It is flat out wrong.

However, newer theories do lay out conditions of the universe that pretty much guarantee that other life does exist in the cosmos, from the very optimistic being an infinite amount (how I hate that concept), to the odd happening that the only other life out there is a bizarro parallel Earth in a bizarro parallel Solar System.

I go back to my earlier point on this, say life can exists beyond the observable universe, would this life even exist in something that should be considered our universe? Or would this be life in a parallel universe, existing totally independent from us, in both its existance and even to its evolution. That these two patches of reality have sprung to existance utterly cut off and have no interaction at any level at any time (assuming that the speed of light is and still will be the speed limit of information, regardless what some neutrinos do).

If life exists in these conditions, does it actually exist from our point of view? Or only from some grand perspective of an observer able to stand back from the cosmos and see these small patches of parallel universes all at once?

 

[RisingFury]

SPACE.com: Want to Find Aliens? Look for More than Just Earth-Like Planets

This article is crap.

But the researchers also propose a second scale, called the Planetary Habitability Index (PHI), which would take into account a range of chemical and physical parameters thought to be conducive to life in more extreme conditions not found on Earth.

We DON'T KNOW what could be conducive to life!!! We've never seen any of them. The only thing we know is ourselves and we haven't even found life that is similar to ourselves.

Why waste limited resources looking for stuff we don't even know works?

 

[T.Neo]

We DON'T KNOW what could be conducive to life!!! We've never seen any of them. The only thing we know is ourselves and we haven't even found life that is similar to ourselves.

Why waste limited resources looking for stuff we don't even know works?

To be fair, it could pay to look for planets that could at least be habitable to familiar life, rather than to 'grade' planets on how Earth-like they are.

Habitable does not necessarily mean "just like Earth". Especially when you consider how much Earth has changed during its history...

 

[orb]

Universe Today: Why Silicon-based Aliens Would Rather Eat our Cities than Us: Thoughts on Non-carbon Astrobiology

 

[T.Neo]

Oh no, not silicon based life again.

 

[Urwumpe]

Oh no, not silicon based life again.

It would work near blue giant stars.

 

[Ragtag]

None that can travel here or have traveled here. Why? Because we are still here. We may have to face three possibilities. 1. Intelligent life such as humans is a fluke and we are the only ones. 2. It's just not possible to travel the distances. Even generational ships are a stretch because it is unlikely a ship could be built that would reliably function for hundreds or thousands of years in the hostile environment of space and with limited resources. If the ship was traveling at any decent percentage of light it would be nearly impossible to send ships out to gather resources. 3. We are the most advanced race in the universe. Hey, somebody has to be so why not us?

There is one other possibility which I feel is the most realistic. No race continues beyond the point at which a small group or a single individual can destroy that race. Think about the "12 Monkey" scenario. Be it religion, environmentalists, or just a crazy person that hates the race, there will always be those that think their race is to vile to continue and that it is their mission to ensure that it doesn't. Maybe the entire race doesn't die but it may get knocked back to the stone age every so often preventing it from advancing to space exploration.

There is one other slim possibility and that is like us they have decided that expending resources on space exploration is not a worthy cause. Like us they figure it is better to run a department of "_________ fill in the blank" for a day than it is to fund space exploration for a year.

 

[T.Neo]

Why? Because we are still here.

Because any alien that comes across Earth is ensured to destroy it outright? :facepalm:

Being able to explore space on a grand scale (compared to us) or even having an impressive history of colonisation (compared to us) does not guarantee that an alien civilisation would have ever come into contact with Earth. And even then, it is possible that people have been here before and left no record of their visitation (paleocontact- while there is no evidence for it, is still a theoretical possibility). Anything from before perhaps 200 years ago would be mythology... and anything before 10-20 000 years ago would probably be lost to history.

 

[jedidia]

Universe Today: Why Silicon-based Aliens Would Rather Eat our Cities than Us: Thoughts on Non-carbon Astrobiology

Thanks, that's a fun article! Quote of the day:

We run hot and move fast. If we don’t, things will catch us and eat us.

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

From a purely logical standpoint if extraterrestrials were here then how would we even know ? One only has to look at a few Star Trek episodes to understand ... from using cloaking technologies to knowing how to blend into a society. How many extraterrestrials have we spoken to and not even known it ?

 

[Ghostrider]

From a purely logical standpoint if extraterrestrials were here then how would we even know ?

We wouldn't because someone would take care of it...

... And one of those is Ilya Kuryakin!

 

[Ragtag]

Because any alien that comes across Earth is ensured to destroy it outright? :facepalm:

Being able to explore space on a grand scale (compared to us) or even having an impressive history of colonisation (compared to us) does not guarantee that an alien civilisation would have ever come into contact with Earth. And even then, it is possible that people have been here before and left no record of their visitation (paleocontact- while there is no evidence for it, is still a theoretical possibility). Anything from before perhaps 200 years ago would be mythology... and anything before 10-20 000 years ago would probably be lost to history.

Well I thought that the whole thing was about contact with aliens. My bad. You are correct. For all we know there are grand civilizations comprised of billions of worlds with members that have godlike powers.

Lets forget about scifi stuff like warp drive and cloaking fields and stick with what we know is possiable with what we feel is real physics.

We have only one race to base our understanding of exploration on and that is the human race. While there is a possibility that an alien race would be truly our space brothers coming here to beg us to join their federation it's more likly they would be greeting us with conquest or colonization and not leaving us to our own affairs. It would take a massive amount of resources and dedication for any race to undertake long range exploration of space. That in and of itself says they are aggressive in nature. Possibility aggressive enough to conquer rather than drop in for tea after their generation trip across the stars.

Then there is the current history of alien and human encounters to consider. Lets say that not all people that claim to have encountered aliens are crazy. So far those encounters have been abductions, biological experiments, what amounts to torture and possibly rape. None have resulted in the person coming away with something to better their life or that of their fellow humans. In my opinion if what I thought was an alien craft landed in front of me I would run away as fast as I could because there is zero evidence that they are in any way friendly and lots that they are not.

Now I know we all want the aliens to be just like Captain Picard and his wonderful crew of the Enterprise but it's more likely they will be more like Klingons, Romulans or the Frengi.

What is comes down to is people that think aliens are morally and technologically superior and would do us no harm or those of us like Stephen Hawking who thinks otherwise.

A couple of easily Googled quotes of Stephen Hawking:

"We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach."

"If aliens ever visit us, I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn't turn out very well for the Native Americans."

I guess it comes do to whether or not you have faith aliens will always be friendly ones with the best interest of humans in their actions or aggressive one that feel that the technological superiority gives them the right to make humans subservient. I for one will run away.


As far as them being hare already and hidden among us. Sure why not anything is possible. They could also be flying around on cloaked unicorns but I guess we will never really know until they reveal themselves.

 

[Ghostrider]

Taking (or rather stealing) a theme from Michael Crichton's Sphere, aliens may be so freaking different that they could lack the concept of war (and even the concept of peace), they could have absolutely no interest in us and only talk to the grass, they could be so physically different as to send anyone who sees them to the Funny Farm, and so on.

Heck, they could harm us without even knowing or even benefit us the same way. We could never be able to make contact at all even if they were across the room, because of the lack of common ground.

Mind you, it might even be a blessing. Imagine the fun if we contact an alien civilization and they offer us slaves as a token of goodwill...

 

[Ragtag]

Taking (or rather stealing) a theme from Michael Crichton's Sphere, aliens may be so freaking different that they could lack the concept of war (and even the concept of peace), they could have absolutely no interest in us and only talk to the grass, they could be so physically different as to send anyone who sees them to the Funny Farm, and so on.

Heck, they could harm us without even knowing or even benefit us the same way. We could never be able to make contact at all even if they were across the room, because of the lack of common ground.

Mind you, it might even be a blessing. Imagine the fun if we contact an alien civilization and they offer us slaves as a token of goodwill...

Very true. They could also be so different that they don't even recognize us as life. The only problem I see with that is that if they are so different that they may not even consider Earth as a planet that could harbor intelligent life. If they do then I would have to assume that they do recognize humans as life. If we are to believe evolution we also have to assume that they became dominate on their planet the same way as we did through having to survive day to day. A race that didn't have to worry about survival my not even bother to create advanced technologies. If climate was great and food and shelter abundant you may never develop past a tribal stage because there is no need to. Then there is the possibility that their senses are so different than ours that they are not even aware of space or perhaps they have great technologies but live underwater. Space to them would be above the surface and then they would be searching only for places with abundant water.

Maybe they would destroy us just because they wanted to make way for a hyperspace bypass.

 

[T.Neo]

One only has to look at a few Star Trek episodes to understand ...

:facepalm:

it's more likly they would be greeting us with conquest or colonization

Why do they want conquest? Why do they want to colonise here?

I'm sorry, but this itself is a very 'Star Trek' esque assumption, a cliche.

That in and of itself says they are aggressive in nature.

I don't see any reason to make that assumption, and even then one kind of aggression does not necessarily denote another.

their generation trip across the stars

This assumption is also not necessarily the case.

Then there is the current history of alien and human encounters to consider. Lets say that not all people that claim to have encountered aliens are crazy.

It isn't about people who have claimed to encountered aliens being "crazy", but rather the very clear evidence that the 'alien abduction' phenomenon is psychological and cultural rather than physical.

But for the sake of the discussion, yes... let's assume that it is (at least partially) indeed physical;

So far those encounters have been abductions, biological experiments, what amounts to torture and possibly rape.

Woah there... rape is forcing sexual activity upon someone against their will. Medical examinations for example involving the genitals are not a sexual activity and therefore can only be very dubiously described as rape if done without the subject's consent (though sexual themes are present in some abduction accounts).

Torture is similar; the intentional causing of pain on a subject. There are many things that can be done to a person that involve pain, that are not necessarily torture (though again, some abduction accounts surely involve downright torture).

Also: have you ever considered what it is like for a lion, that is darted and studied by a team of zoologists? It is pretty much an "abduction" experience, undoubtedly quite traumatic and disturbing. Yet the zoology team does not mean either the individual lion, or its entire species of lions any harm.

So abductions are not necessarily sinister.

(Mind you, some people also shoot lions for fun, so it can work both ways.)

None have resulted in the person coming away with something to better their life or that of their fellow humans.

I would not say that, the abduction phenomenon is pretty diverse and I am sure there are many cases where it has had some sort of neutral or even positive outcome on the affected people... the generalisation isn't warrented.

I know we all want the aliens to be just like Captain Picard and his wonderful crew of the Enterprise

I never suggested that, I think this is bordering on a strawman argument (not the best descriptive term here). I didn't suggest aliens would be like 'the crew of the Enterprise' at all...

What is comes down to is people that think aliens are morally and technologically superior and would do us no harm or those of us like Stephen Hawking who thinks otherwise.

The fact that Stephen Hawking thinks otherwise means very little, since while he is a respected theoretical physicist and cosmologist, he is no historian, anthropologist, sociologist, or even biologist.

In fact, some of the things he says are pretty silly, like the Columbus analogy... it is not as if every contact between peoples is exactly the same as the contact between the Europeans of the 14-1600s and Native Americans. If modern Spain sent explorers to hypothetical uncontacted Aztecs, the outcome would likely be quite different.

In fact, there are uncontacted peoples on Earth right now. Apparently world civilisation prefers to leave them alone.

I for one will run away.

As silly as this may make you sound, part of me is inclined to agree with you.

They could also be so different that they don't even recognize us as life. The only problem I see with that is that if they are so different that they may not even consider Earth as a planet that could harbor intelligent life.

This issue falls under the concept of alternate biochemistries. That's a whole other matter entirely, but suffice to say it's unlikely we would be approached by icemen from a Titan-like world, or Quartz-people made of silicon.

If climate was great and food and shelter abundant you may never develop past a tribal stage because there is no need to.

These sort of theories pertain to history of some human societies on Earth as well.

there is the possibility that their senses are so different than ours that they are not even aware of space

The senses of metazoans (such as eyes, for example) do make a lot of sense (pun not intended), but even if they were present there are other factors that could prevent an alien species from speculating about space. If their planet had an exceptionally thick atmosphere or permanent cloud cover, they would see no stars and entities coming from the sky might seem nonsensical.

perhaps they have great technologies but live underwater.

That is another possibility, but it raises a lot of particularly tricky questions. How do you invent fire underwater? How do you smelt metals?

Space to them would be above the surface and then they would be searching only for places with abundant water.

Earth then, is actually a pretty good choice. :hmm: