Updates Artemis Program Updates & Discussions

[Donamy]

SpaceX is nothing without NASA.

That could be moving in the other direction soon.

 

[Notebook]

A Nasa facility in Alabama that developed the giant rocket for the Apollo programme in the 1960s will play a key role in sending astronauts down to the Moon's surface in 2024.
The Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville will lead the development of a vehicle that will land astronauts on the body for the first time since 1972.
The decision was announced by Nasa's administrator Jim Bridenstine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49381622

 

[HAL-9000]

This is a good discussion on the mission and the reasons behind it. The discussion starts at 34:30.

[ame]https://youtu.be/3HzPuTLNMtU?t=2068[/ame]

 

[DanM]

https://twitter.com/VP/status/1167164310612840451?s=19

It looks like this is getting some bipartisan support, it might actually happen in this case.

Regardless of who wins in 2020 I think it would be hard to cancel this program if the first SLS flies in 2020 or is close to flying status by that point.

 

[Urwumpe]

Sorry for necroposting, but SpaceX has been selected by NASA to build a lunar landing version of the Starship, transporting people and cargo between lunar orbit and the surface.


[ame="https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1255907213568208896"]SpaceX on Twitter: "A lunar optimized Starship can fly many times between the surface of the Moon and lunar orbit without flaps or heat shielding required for Earth return… https://t.co/9S0VkVOJxR"[/ame]

Might get interesting for some here.

 

[n72.75]

Sorry for necroposting, but SpaceX has been selected by NASA to build a lunar landing version of the Starship, transporting people and cargo between lunar orbit and the surface.


SpaceX on Twitter: "A lunar optimized Starship can fly many times between the surface of the Moon and lunar orbit without flaps or heat shielding required for Earth return… https://t.co/9S0VkVOJxR"

Might get interesting for some here.

Oh my. This could get interesting.

Really hope this stays on course, especially given the present situation

 

[Nicholas Kang]

Not sure what are all of your thoughts, do you guys plan to make this a discussion and update thread? If this is the case, I will update the thread title to better reflect this.

Anyway, here is the complete news:

Press release: https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/...velop-human-landers-for-artemis-moon-missions

NASA has selected three U.S. companies to design and develop human landing systems (HLS) for the agency’s Artemis program, one of which will land the first woman and next man on the surface of the Moon by 2024. NASA is on track for sustainable human exploration of the Moon for the first time in history.

The human landing system awards under the Next Space Technologies for Exploration Partnerships (NextSTEP-2) Appendix H Broad Agency Announcement (BAA) are firm-fixed price, milestone-based contracts. The total combined value for all awarded contracts is $967 million for the 10-month base period.

The following companies were selected to design and build human landing systems:

Blue Origin of Kent, Washington, is developing the Integrated Lander Vehicle (ILV) – a three-stage lander to be launched on its own New Glenn Rocket System and ULA Vulcan launch system.

Dynetics (a Leidos company) of Huntsville, Alabama, is developing the Dynetics Human Landing System (DHLS) – a single structure providing the ascent and descent capabilities that will launch on the ULA Vulcan launch system.

SpaceX of Hawthorne, California, is developing the Starship – a fully integrated lander that will use the SpaceX Super Heavy rocket.

Blue Origin

Blue Origin is the prime contractor for the National Team that includes Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and Draper. Their Integrated Lander Vehicle (ILV) is a three-stage lander that harnesses the proven spaceflight heritage of each team.

Blue Origin will build the descent element which is powered by BE-7 cryogenic engines three years in private development, with cryogenic technologies now under Tipping Point support. Lockheed will build the ascent element that includes the crew cabin, which will have significant commonality with Orion. Northrop Grumman will build the transfer element based largely on its Cygnus cargo module that services the International Space Station. Northrop Grumman is also leading development of a future refueling element for a sustainable lander demonstration. Draper will provide the guidance, navigation and control, avionics, and software systems that draw largely on similar systems the company has developed for NASA.

In their proposal, the National Team outlines a plan in which the ILV can dock with either Orion or the Gateway to await crew arrival. The Blue Origin National Team’s elements for the Human Landing System can be launched individually on commercial rockets or combined to launch on NASA’s Space Launch System.

Dynetics

Dynetics proposed a robust team with more than 25 subcontractors specializing in both the larger elements and the smaller system-level components of the Dynetics Human Landing System. The large team capitalizes on Dynetics’ experience as an integrator on military and defense contracts with large subcontractor teams.

The Dynetics Human Landing System concept includes a single element providing the ascent and descent capabilities, with multiple modular propellant vehicles prepositioned to fuel the engines at different points in the mission. The crew cabin sits low to the surface, enabling a short climb for astronauts entering, exiting, or transporting tools and samples. The DHLS systems supports both docking with Orion and with Gateway, and will get a fuel top-off before descending to the surface. After the surface expedition, the entire vehicle will return for crew transfer back to Orion.

The Dynetics Human Landing System is rocket-agnostic, capable of launching on a number of commercial rockets.

SpaceX

Starship is a fully reusable launch and landing system designed for travel to the Moon, Mars, and other destinations. The system leans on the company’s tested Raptor engines and flight heritage of the Falcon and Dragon vehicles. Starship includes a spacious cabin and two airlocks for astronaut moonwalks.

Several Starships serve distinct purposes in enabling human landing missions, each based on the common Starship design. A propellant storage Starship will park in low-Earth orbit to be supplied by tanker Starships. The human-rated Starship will launch to the storage unit in Earth orbit, fuel up, and continue to lunar orbit.

SpaceX’s Super Heavy rocket booster, which is also powered by Raptor and fully reusable, will launch Starship from Earth. Starship is capable of transporting crew between Orion or Gateway and the lunar surface.

For more info, kindly visit NASA's NextSTEP H: Human Landing System webpage.

 

[mahdavi3d]

 

[Notebook]

BBC article on the NASA selection.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52465585

 

[gattispilot]

So I guess Lockheed Martin lost out

 

[Urwumpe]

So I guess Lockheed Martin lost out

No, they are subcontractor in the National Team lander.

 

[francisdrake]

I am quite surprised that Boeings' lunar lander proposal was dropped.
It was a fairly conservative design of moderate size. Maybe its high weight was prohibitive. Or its Starliner heritage was seen as a liability ...

 

[IronRain]

I am quite surprised that Boeings' lunar lander proposal was dropped.
It was a fairly conservative design of moderate size. Maybe its high weight was prohibitive. Or its Starliner heritage was seen as a liability ...

They didn't had a real plan and the costs were huge compared to the others. NASA was not amused by their proposal and saw a lot of flaws in the documentation Boeing provided.

 

[4throck]

.

Those 3 ovals on Starship's side are the final descent thrusters (there are 3 more on the opposite side).
This is a unique design feature that solves the problem of surface disturbance and dust due to low altitude engine fire.

Specially important if you wish to do multiple landings on the same location.
Would be fun to simulate in Orbiter.

 

[Urwumpe]

Would be fun to simulate in Orbiter.

I think the whole program would be interesting for Orbiter. We have some sort of the same problem as the real world: After Apollo, we stopped going to the moon.

 

[4throck]

Indeed. But the other landers are more or less Apollo like. At least the mission steps are the same and they are not fully reusable.

Starship is different: it has to refuel somewhere (earth or lunar orbit); the whole thing lifts of the lunar surface and is reusable.
To me that's more interesting to fly

 

[Star Voyager]

What worries me about Starship is the painters scaffolding you come down on and the lack of clearance on the ground.

 

[Urwumpe]

What worries me about Starship is the painters scaffolding you come down on and the lack of clearance on the ground.

Not sure if much ground clearance is really needed since it does not seem to use the engines in the bottom to land or take-off.


But the small footprint of course makes me wonder, how rough the terrain can be for landing - looks like anything that is not perfectly flat could become risky.

Also, the pictures look like the Starship lander is lowered and leveled to the surface after landing, the pictures before touchdown show a much longer landing gear.

 

[n72.75]

I think the whole program would be interesting for Orbiter. We have some sort of the same problem as the real world: After Apollo, we stopped going to the moon.

Given the time-scale upon which our group projects tend to happen, I'd say there's a good chance that NASA makes it back to the moon long before we can simulate it. :lol:


It would be a very cool project tho...

 

[Fabri91]

I am quite surprised that Boeings' lunar lander proposal was dropped.
It was a fairly conservative design of moderate size. Maybe its high weight was prohibitive. Or its Starliner heritage was seen as a liability ...

And isn't Boeing also the prime contractor for the SLS?