Science Ask your local Med

Eccentrus

Geekernaut
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
859
Reaction score
27
Points
28
Location
Jakarta or Bandung
Well, I think I'm the only Medical Student here, but I do notice some people who are working in the health care as well. But a thread like this had not existed yet. Ask anything, preferably space or physics related as well like "what happened to the body after long time exposure to weightlessness?" (yes I have a whole chapter explaining that in my physiology textbook) or "Is MRI safe?", but anything med related is fine :lol:

Now go on and ask your local Med!
 

NovaSilisko

The Siliskoiest of Siliskos
Addon Developer
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Messages
577
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Well considering my right ear has been completely plugged up for almost two days now and you're the most easily-accessible, closest-thing-to-a-doctor I can find from my current location... what's the best way to clear it up?

To appeal to your spaceside, though: I heard a report a while back that anti-arthritis drugs can help mitigate bone loss from microgravity. Has any more research been done on this?
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
I have a pain in my eye when drinking coffee, what can I do against it?
 

Eccentrus

Geekernaut
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
859
Reaction score
27
Points
28
Location
Jakarta or Bandung
Well considering my right ear has been completely plugged up for almost two days now and you're the most easily-accessible, closest-thing-to-a-doctor I can find from my current location... what's the best way to clear it up?

To appeal to your spaceside, though: I heard a report a while back that anti-arthritis drugs can help mitigate bone loss from microgravity. Has any more research been done on this?

How does it feel? do you feel it is filled with a substance? Can you hear clearly from your right ear? Try to hear a song intermittently with your left one (close one up and hear with the other), does the frequency of the song changes when you do that? Try having something very loud played and at the direction of your midline, is it leaning to your left? The most likely case here, I think you have a case of cerumen, which is actually easily manageable, and easily preventable by cotton bud (a.k.a personal hygiene) but sometimes it can be hard enough that it has to be removed by an ENT specialist (or any other doctor), happened to me once in my childhood. Other possible causes are damage to the eardrum, Neurological hearing loss, or Noise-Induced hearing loss. If you recently had a stroke this can happen as well, I can't really be sure without checking you physically about this though, as otoscopy is required to determine the diagnosis. Hope you get well soon :D

I can't find anything with the keyword "anti-arthritis + Microgravity" there are a lot of kinds of arthritis with their own medication, and I don't really have a time to do that lot of research right now, so can you be more specific? :)

I have a pain in my eye when drinking coffee, what can I do against it?

Caffeine works by increasing your heart rate which can increase your blood pressure, I think you really should have yours checked. Pain in the eye can be caused by the enlargement of the vein in the retina because of the increased blood pressure, and the pressure don't really have anywhere to go, the eye will only pop out if all 8 muscles in there fail (which is highly unlikely). I'm sorry but the only suggestion I can give to you would be to stay away from highly-caffeinated coffee and try a milder one.

Here's one for you...

Did you know it's supposed to be called Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Imaging?

I did an assignment about it when I was in Astronomy, pretty interesting stuff, they use Gamma ray and because of that it has actually lower side effect than X-ray. The most interesting part is that they use the magnet to align the Hydrogen atoms inside our body and this alignment (and density of Hydrogen) is what being detected by the device. Pretty neat I must say.

Next Patient please! :rofl:
 

PeterRoss

Warranty man
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
1,985
Reaction score
127
Points
63
Location
Khabarovsk
Website
vk.com
I know there is no real information about microgravity effects on a human body on a really long terms like some tens of years, but what can be expected, especially if natural ageing is taken into account? Let's say we have a male human in the age of sixty on a LEO station. He spent last thirty years on that station without decsending back on Earth and not being affected by any decent acceleration at all. What should we expect from his health state to be? Is it possible to get him back on Earth alive using modern technologies? I expect him to die because of G-load during deceleration, but I might be wrong. Has he any chances at all?
 

RisingFury

OBSP developer
Addon Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
6,427
Reaction score
492
Points
173
Location
Among bits and Bytes...
I did an assignment about it when I was in Astronomy, pretty interesting stuff, they use Gamma ray and because of that it has actually lower side effect than X-ray. The most interesting part is that they use the magnet to align the Hydrogen atoms inside our body and this alignment (and density of Hydrogen) is what being detected by the device. Pretty neat I must say.

Next Patient please! :rofl:

Whooohoooaaaa!

You weren't paying much attention in your astronomy class. NMRI doesn't use any ionizing radiation at all. X-ray or gamma.

Perhaps you were thinking of CT scan or PET scan.


In NMRI, you use a magnetic field to align nuclear spins, which begin to rotate in the field. The frequency of rotation depends on the strength of the magnetic field.

You can then use a radio frequency pulses to rotate the spins. Usually you first rotate them by 90°, then another 180°. Then you listen for the "echo" of the spin-spin coupling (best translation I can give you from Slovenian).

If you vary the magnetic field, the frequency of rotation differs, so if the magnetic field at your head is stronger than that at your field, you get a different signal from two different places.

No X-rays of gamma rays required. The frequencies are in the MHz range.



Don't know much about CT or PET, but I do know that PET uses a short lived beta-decay nucleus injected into the body. As the nucleus decays, positrons are released. They fly through the body a very short distance and hit an electron. When that happens, two or three photons can be created (two in case the spins are opposite, three in case where spins are parallel - conservation of energy, conservation of momentum and conservation of angular momentum. Photon has a spin of 1 or -1, so 1/2 -1/2 = 1 - 1 in case of three photons and 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 + 1 - 1).

In case of two photons, they each have an energy of 511 MeV and I never made the calculation for three photons, but my guess would be 340 MeV each. Both are in the soft gamma ray band.
 
Last edited:

Eccentrus

Geekernaut
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
859
Reaction score
27
Points
28
Location
Jakarta or Bandung

I told you it was an assignment, and what kind of Astronomy lecturer know a thing about MRI and how it works? Well I must have used some kind of Physics book as the source, since I remember that the symbol gamma was all over the place (can be RF photon actually). It was somekind of "Physics and its real world application" assignment thingie, I got MRI, a friend got echo explosion to determine the material of a piece of land, and other funny stuffs never mentioned anymore.

The most interesting development in the MRI field now, I think, is how they can now use the diffusal tensor imaging, being used in the Human Connectome Project. Might perhaps lead us to the first real scientific attempt to explain psychology.

Diffusion Tensor Imaging

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:35 PM ----------

I know there is no real information about microgravity effects on a human body on a really long terms like some tens of years, but what can be expected, especially if natural ageing is taken into account? Let's say we have a male human in the age of sixty on a LEO station. He spent last thirty years on that station without decsending back on Earth and not being affected by any decent acceleration at all. What should we expect from his health state to be? Is it possible to get him back on Earth alive using modern technologies? I expect him to die because of G-load during deceleration, but I might be wrong. Has he any chances at all?

It is dangerous for anyone that age to travel with any kind of means of transportation, especially after such a long time in weightlessness. Let's add up all the attributes of long-exposure of microgravity, atrophy of the muscles, osteoporosis, and multiply it by 30 (the most a person was in space is about more than a year), and you're gonna have a lot of problems. Yes, at some point the atrophy would stop, to the minimum muscle mass required to breathe and function in weightlessness, the osteoporosis too will stop at that stage, but we don't know what the stage is. It can be below what is needed to breathe and function on 1G, let alone to cope with the high-G manoeuvre that is re-entry. Now factor in his old age, what kind of organs will likely fail him? At 60 I have my bet on the heart, the liver, the kidney, the whole vascular system, and the brain would all in failing function, and the shock of the G-force itself can induce a heart attack or a stroke for this kind of individual without factoring in all the atrophy and osteoporosis resulted from the being in space for such a long time. A sternal or rib cage fracture would be in order at that scenario, which can lead to tamponade and worse, lung and heart damage, the chance of this guy surviving such a ride is pretty slim according to me, but unfortunately we will never have the data to test this hypotheses, since a. it is unethical to actually test this on a person, and b. not that many elderly climb up to roller coaster to provide us a comparison data, let alone the Stephen Hawking type of elder (not the brain, the whole ALS and bone reduction part). But then again a roller-coaster wouldn't compare to the G-force produced by spacecraft, so we may never now in all actuality in this case, I can only infer it from our current knowledge.

As a physician, I would rather keep him in orbit until he expires due to old age, since he might be able to function better and longer than his counterpart at the surface. Do you know? For the elderly, even the capability of being able take his own meal and drink is significantly related to his longetivity, since that reduces the stress-factor which for young people can be bad enough, and can have real physiologic effect to the elderly because of their reduced organ functionality. And perhaps the clean and controlled environment of a Space Station might have less toxins and the like which can improve upon the activity of the liver and kidney, another bonus point for the longetivity scoreboard. IDK for sure, we may need to bring mice for years on end up there to compare their age with the one down here, and we might get some data to play at.
 

T.Neo

SA 2010 Soccermaniac
Addon Developer
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
6,368
Reaction score
0
Points
0
The rate of deceleration during reentry depends on the trajectory that the vehicle takes- a nominal Soyuz reentry (lifting reentry) sustains something like 4-5G, but a ballistic reentry goes up to ~10G. A spaceplane could sustain lower G-levels- Dreamchaser apparently boasts reentry G-levels of 1.5G or less. A spaceplane might be smoother on landing, too.
 

Quick_Nick

Passed the Turing Test
Donator
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
4,088
Reaction score
204
Points
103
Location
Tucson, AZ
I did an assignment about it when I was in Astronomy, pretty interesting stuff, they use Gamma ray and because of that it has actually lower side effect than X-ray. The most interesting part is that they use the magnet to align the Hydrogen atoms inside our body and this alignment (and density of Hydrogen) is what being detected by the device. Pretty neat I must say.

Next Patient please! :rofl:

I bet Martin could give us quite a post on that. :p
 

PeterRoss

Warranty man
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
1,985
Reaction score
127
Points
63
Location
Khabarovsk
Website
vk.com
The rate of deceleration during reentry depends on the trajectory that the vehicle takes- a nominal Soyuz reentry (lifting reentry) sustains something like 4-5G, but a ballistic reentry goes up to ~10G. A spaceplane could sustain lower G-levels- Dreamchaser apparently boasts reentry G-levels of 1.5G or less. A spaceplane might be smoother on landing, too.

I'm afraid that a human being lived (and aged) thirty years in zero-G environment would be killed by Earth's surface gravity itself. Don't know if physical training and medical means would be effective to keep the poor guy able to get back on Earth, even if applied on the duration of the all these thirty years.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
I'm afraid that a human being lived (and aged) thirty years in zero-G environment would be killed by Earth's surface gravity itself. Don't know if physical training and medical means would be effective to keep the poor guy able to get back on Earth, even if applied on the duration of the all these thirty years.

I wouldn't say it is that terrible. But he would sure have to be considered seriously ill after returning to full gravity after 30 years of micro-gravity.

After all, the astronaut also needs a lot of upper body training for EVAs, which is physical hard work. he might need to lay down during reentry so his brain does not get a stroke, but that is not that much of a problem. His bones will be frail and he will likely not know how to walk anymore. He will require infusions as support while needing also to drink a lot.

But I would say, after 3 months, he should be fine enough already to travel in a wheelchair, while getting already training to be able to walk and run again.

Humans are, in my experience, extremely hard to kill.
 

Eccentrus

Geekernaut
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Messages
859
Reaction score
27
Points
28
Location
Jakarta or Bandung
humans at 60, in my experience are very fragile, we're talking about an elder, if there's no other effects of ageing, I bet what you're saying will be true, but if you factor in the ageing, well, a lot of things will happen.
 

Xyon

Puts the Fun in Dysfunctional
Administrator
Moderator
Orbiter Contributor
Addon Developer
Webmaster
GFX Staff
Beta Tester
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
6,926
Reaction score
794
Points
203
Location
10.0.0.1
Website
www.orbiter-radio.co.uk
Preferred Pronouns
she/her
humans at 60, in my experience are very fragile.

You should meet my grandfather. He's just turned 80 and he cycles comparable distances (not speeds, but distances) to Tex (>70 mi per trip) routinely. He's fit as a fiddle, well, fit as a fiddle which has had three heart attacks...

Seriously, he's fitter than I am, and I'm 23.
 

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
News Reporter
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,816
Reaction score
641
Points
188
humans at 60, in my experience are very fragile, we're talking about an elder, if there's no other effects of ageing, I bet what you're saying will be true, but if you factor in the ageing, well, a lot of things will happen.

Well, thats cheered me up no end on a wet Friday morning...I 'm feeling fragile now.

N.
 

Xyon

Puts the Fun in Dysfunctional
Administrator
Moderator
Orbiter Contributor
Addon Developer
Webmaster
GFX Staff
Beta Tester
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Messages
6,926
Reaction score
794
Points
203
Location
10.0.0.1
Website
www.orbiter-radio.co.uk
Preferred Pronouns
she/her
Want some bubble wrap, Notebook?
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
humans at 60, in my experience are very fragile, we're talking about an elder, if there's no other effects of ageing, I bet what you're saying will be true, but if you factor in the ageing, well, a lot of things will happen.

The track and field trainer of my younger brothers had been 89 and still doing lots of sports. The oldest astronaut (tourist) was 77. And then you still have rare exceptions like this:

Fauja_singh_finishes_Toronto_marathon.jpg
 
Last edited:

Notebook

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
News Reporter
Donator
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
11,816
Reaction score
641
Points
188
Want some bubble wrap, Notebook?

I'm inundated with bubble wrap, I haven't got the strength to pop it, but thanks for the thought. I'm going back to bed now, its been a long day.

N.
 
Top