Question Best Place to Immigrate?

[Eccentrus]

I don't know if this fits in the basement or not, but it certainly doesn't fit in the other subforums and touches sensitive question.

Many of you know that I'm irreligious, and live in Indonesia. But what not that many of you know is that I'm an ethnic Chinese who grew up and live in a Christian community, hence part of a little minority in here. If any of you paid a little bit of attention to Indonesia, you would have known that Wahabism is taking root in here, although the Moderate Muslims (currently still the majority) has started to stop being silent and make retaliation, the grip of Hizbut Tahrir and their gang has been made and sometimes can rule an entire university or institution. I don't know what will happen in the next decade, because, just a decade ago, nobody of the extreme position dared to put up a voice, while now parades and protests can have theme so Wahabist that some of them demand the conversion of the semi-secular state into an Islamic state. If and when this happen, none of the people in my family and community would want to be a part in any of this.

So the big question is, if I have to emigrate from Indonesia, where do you think will be most suitable?

My considerations are:

1. United States
2. Canada
3. Australia

These are chosen primarily because of the language. My parents were PRC citizens until 1965 when dual citizenship was banned here, but I have read that it will be unlikely to gain another citizenship there after discarding it once. If I can gain access to my Grandfather's ROC citizenship documents though, that will be different since AFAIK Taiwan might open up to the descendant until third degree (grandchildren) of their ex-citizen overseas, but this is a very unlikely case as well, not to mention the language barrier me and my cousins have because of Suharto's policies if we ever emigrate to the Greater China area.

All those three I listed above are somewhat famous in my community for easy opening up to immigrants. I also have plans to change my listed surname from "Chaidir" which is adapted from Cai in Chinese, to Chua, the Hokkien version of Cai, and add Chua Hyau Hyong, my Hokkien name, into the name registry as another legal name for me. Although the name change is primarily to make momentum for reversing the effects of Suharto's policies to Chinese-Indonesian, some of my father's friends have rumored that having your Chinese name listed in your passport or ID can help a lot in the immigration process.

So then, many of you would know better than I do. I would like to know about your opinions about this, since it could mean a lot in a life or dead situation (sorry if I'm exaggerating, I'm part of a minority ethnic which has been living in fear for the last 60 years)

All things being said and done though, I still sincerely hope that this won't happen and I won't ever need to leave this country aside for vacations

---------- Post added at 11:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 PM ----------

oopsie posted it in Brighton Lounge instead, oh well, mods if you feel that this is more appropriate in the basement, then please do all that is necessary.

 

[Urwumpe]

What about going to New Zealand?

 

[Eccentrus]

Can be a good place to consider, but none of my acquaintances have experience of going there as a refugee, the only person holding a PR there that I know of, holds it because she worked as a researcher for a pharmaceutical company over there (she still holds it and keep her house there), any New Zealanders can enlighten me over this?

 

[Arrowstar]

The southern or southwestern U.S. or Australia may have a climate closer to what you're used to. Canada is a very nice country, but the winters do get cold. As someone from the northern U.S., I can attest to this fact.

 

[Codz]

I'd recommend the US if you can stomach the immigration process. Any of the major cities usually have quite a bit of diversity in ethnicity and religion. Not to mention, we've got plenty of room for more people in the medical field.

 

[Quick_Nick]

As Codz says, the US has diversity and you will surely find others with your own background. I don't know how quickly you would be able to immigrate though. I would consider canada acceptable except the climate. I don't know much about diversity in Canada, i'm sure some other orbinauts can enlighten us.

 

[Urwumpe]

I don't want to recommend Germany. While a pretty fine place to be if you are German, I currently find the atmosphere for foreigners is pretty hostile. There is some lot of blindness in the German police towards xenophobic hate crimes and violence against foreigners, with the responsible people always pointing at "the danger from the extreme left" to hide that they are more concerned about burning luxury cars than about foreigners beaten up.

Also, you have much stronger problems here making a career if you are foreigner, the anonymous CV experiment had shown that discrimination is pretty common, though it varies on the job. As medic, you might have better chances here than as for example salesman.

It is no "the Nazis are marching again" atmosphere or the beginning of the 1990s in Germany, but I feel like reported crimes and official truth is diverging, and I don't want to recommend a country in which somebody can't feel safe at night. Until the police is really denazified, time will pass. Maybe things will get better in some years.

 

[Nexiss]

Foget the UK its getting more communist by the day and the government spy on you in every conceivable way, As soon as I have enough capital (providing they don't take it all away from me in taxes) I'm out of here!

This is not a free country anymore and our civil liberties are being erroded by the week, Big brother State, the government are all criminals !!!!

Seriously avoid the UK like the plauge

 

[Eccentrus]

As a young man, the climates shouldn't worry me, I still have plenty of time to adapt into a new one :lol:

so the considerations are these, the older people of my family has Chinese as first language with nonexistant to minimal proficiency in English, so if we move out, it is essential in the first years (since our savings here will worth next to nothing in any of those countries, except for the crazier part of the family who probably has 10s of millions of dollars in assets) that the old people can find work, considering their language skills, they can only work in a Chinatown, while the youngsters are nothing to worry about, so long as economics degree still has its value (half of my cousins have majored in business or engineering, and some studied in Australia and US, and all have at least 550 TOEFL)

Considering the medical degree, what should a doctor do to reassign and gain a medical license in the US? or any other country. In here AFAIK, you have to go back to a teaching hospital for about a year and do the standardized competence exam, I'm curious about the process in another country.

---------- Post added at 01:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 AM ----------

I don't want to recommend Germany. While a pretty fine place to be if you are German, I currently find the atmosphere for foreigners is pretty hostile. There is some lot of blindness in the German police towards xenophobic hate crimes and violence against foreigners, with the responsible people always pointing at "the danger from the extreme left" to hide that they are more concerned about burning luxury cars than about foreigners beaten up.

Also, you have much stronger problems here making a career if you are foreigner, the anonymous CV experiment had shown that discrimination is pretty common, though it varies on the job. As medic, you might have better chances here than as for example salesman.

It is no "the Nazis are marching again" atmosphere or the beginning of the 1990s in Germany, but I feel like reported crimes and official truth is diverging, and I don't want to recommend a country in which somebody can't feel safe at night. Until the police is really denazified, time will pass. Maybe things will get better in some years.

Pretty much why I'm not choosing it. I'm not going to target Europe because of the exceptionally high living cost and the rising discrimination (perceived) in many of the countries there, they're not immigrant states and they would never be. Even though the social policies there are to envy to (yeah, I'm pointing to you Scandinavians :lol: ).

I'm in the opinion that Europe should halt all of its immigration for now, the tension between the local populace with the immigrants who are sometimes more capable and more acceptant to lower wage is rising AFAIK, not to mention the clash that their cultures they bring. Germany's problem rose first with the Turks, it's a clash of civilizations again but it's happening in the streets of Berlin, not outside the walls of Vienna.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think the problem is rather that the violent have become more confident. Today it is pretty common to directly resort to death threats if you are opposing Nazis, regardless if you are German or not. This is no longer limited to the internet. and behind each violent opinion leader, you have many who are thinking that it is much better to be his friend than his enemy. Things will go that direction until the mixture explodes. A single foreigner would be one too much for the Nazis, foreigners outside Germany as well. Holding hands and singing Kumbayah won't stop them as well. To fight them, you have to attack their ideology... or the many small lies will keep on growing.

To be honest, I am thinking this applies to many countries today.

 

[MeDiCS]

Hmm, difficult situation indeed. If it wasn't for the language barrier, I'd say that the possibility of immigrating here (Brazil) would at least be worth looking into. Foreigners are generally well accepted regardless of origin - São Paulo has the largest Japanese community outside Japan, and the southern states are emigration targets for a large number of European citizens, for example. The government is also sympathetic to foreign refugees.

 

[MattBaker]

And compared to Australia, New Zealand, Canada or the US the crime rate is very...:dry:

 

[tl8]

If you are coming to Australia, don't come by boat...

 

[Suzy]

Australia? Fairly close by, a large immigrant population from various parts of Asia, reasonably tolerant (aside from a few idiots!), comparatively little religious extremism. Your English seems good and if you have some sort of skills I wouldn't imagine that you would have too much trouble with immigrating. (Also, for citizens here - Medicare!) Cost of living here, though, is rather high

 

[4throck]

Really depends on what you want regarding personal safety, financial success, career, etc.

If you are willing to do something outside your formal education, your background might be an advantage. For example, in teaching languages in a foreign country, tourist guide, etc, etc.


I wouldn't rule out Western Europe. Sure, big economic crisis and zero growth for decades, but also few young people with good skills. Tourism industry is still strong. Weather is quite good and people are tolerant of foreigners. Even so, the culture is traditional macho-man with lots of stereotypes.

If you are fluent in English, there are big communities of UK citizens in southern Portugal and Spain. And they usually go to "their" private doctors because of language and culture.

Also, the Chinese are investing big in retail, so ethnicity is not a big problem here, at least for now. They are seen as entrepreneurs and hard working people.

 

[Urwumpe]

I wouldn't rule out Western Europe. Sure, big economic crisis and zero growth for decades, but also few young people with good skills. Tourism industry is still strong. Weather is quite good and people are tolerant of foreigners. Even so, the culture is traditional macho-man with lots of stereotypes.

No felt economic crisis and stable growth in Germany for years now. I just warn of the above by me, we have some problems with xenophobia below the surface. We have quite many immigrants who made very successful careers here, not just in sports (for example Öger tours), but don't believe that they had it as easy as Germans, they likely had it harder than they would have had it in the USA for example.

Also, if you want to go into the health sector, European countries might be better because you have stable public health systems there, which usually mean that you have a pretty reliable, but boring life. The bureaucracy in germany is terrible, but things will likely change here. Other countries are much more effective there.

 

[george7378]

Foget the UK its getting more communist by the day and the government spy on you in every conceivable way, As soon as I have enough capital (providing they don't take it all away from me in taxes) I'm out of here!

This is not a free country anymore and our civil liberties are being erroded by the week, Big brother State, the government are all criminals !!!!

Wut??

 

[SpaceNut]

Might as well come here (the US), if you're a foreigner, you get every break under the Sun, once you use that up, we have a welfare system that wants you on board, we're a mostly Christian country, so you won't have the religious minority issue, you have every single climate you can imagine to live in from the Arctic of Alaska to the tropical climate of Hawaii. On top of all of that, you've got KSC and about 30 or 40 other NASA facilities to visit.

 

[Ghostrider]

If you ever decide to relocate to Switzerland, let me know. I'll support your request for a visa.

 

[wehaveaproblem]

Foget the UK its getting more communist by the day and the government spy on you in every conceivable way, As soon as I have enough capital (providing they don't take it all away from me in taxes) I'm out of here!

This is not a free country anymore and our civil liberties are being erroded by the week, Big brother State, the government are all criminals !!!!

Seriously avoid the UK like the plauge

Woah, slow down there! Exaggerate much?

That said, I have no idea what a 'plauge' is, so maybe it's good advice...