Shadow Addict
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Slightly off-topic, but I was searching for this topic and found that Urwumpe had essentially my exact addon idea a year before I found Orbiter. How doable would that be?
Buzz Aldrins Race into Space
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Urwumpe
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Well, it was based on mostly pen and paper stuff and Velcro rockets as technological base. Not really that hard. VBAM might be a tiny show stopper for costing little money, but it is one of the most generic campaign systems i know.
Shadow Addict
New member
Ah, I must've read through it a bit too hastily. Still a great idea, pen and paper games are a favorite of mine.
BARIS / RIS
Hi everyone! This is Leon, from the Docking Module--aka peyre at the RIS SourceForge page.
It's exciting seeing BARIS/RIS being discussed. Sometimes I wonder if anyone still remembers this game outside the half dozen of us on the RIS project.
Lunar_Lander, you've really been paying attention! I didn't know if anyone had ever read the enhancement requests document. Incidentally, it's down temporarily, along with the Docking Module. I moved it to Sqweebs when Geocities closed back in October, but now Sqweebs has taken its servers down temporarily--or so they say. I'll be out of town next week; when I get back, if they're still down, I'll start looking for a new hosting service.
RIS also has a Twitter account now, Raceintospace, for anyone who's interested. I've been jabbering there about the latest changes I'm working on.
What you guys are talking about is WAY more involved than anything I have in mind, but that shouldn't discourage you. I could see three games coming out of this: Classic RIS, RIS II (extending the game out to a manned Mars landing), and this space tourism game you're cooking up ideas for. Nice!
For anyone who's interested in just what's going on with RIS, I've been working on little changes to the UI that make it easier to administer your space program (showing the date in the R&D and Purchasing screens, for instance), and smoothing out rough edges (centering text inside buttons, etc.). I've started there for several reasons:
Hi everyone! This is Leon, from the Docking Module--aka peyre at the RIS SourceForge page.
It's exciting seeing BARIS/RIS being discussed. Sometimes I wonder if anyone still remembers this game outside the half dozen of us on the RIS project.
Lunar_Lander, you've really been paying attention! I didn't know if anyone had ever read the enhancement requests document. Incidentally, it's down temporarily, along with the Docking Module. I moved it to Sqweebs when Geocities closed back in October, but now Sqweebs has taken its servers down temporarily--or so they say. I'll be out of town next week; when I get back, if they're still down, I'll start looking for a new hosting service.
RIS also has a Twitter account now, Raceintospace, for anyone who's interested. I've been jabbering there about the latest changes I'm working on.
What you guys are talking about is WAY more involved than anything I have in mind, but that shouldn't discourage you. I could see three games coming out of this: Classic RIS, RIS II (extending the game out to a manned Mars landing), and this space tourism game you're cooking up ideas for. Nice!
For anyone who's interested in just what's going on with RIS, I've been working on little changes to the UI that make it easier to administer your space program (showing the date in the R&D and Purchasing screens, for instance), and smoothing out rough edges (centering text inside buttons, etc.). I've started there for several reasons:
- It's something I CAN do--I'm not a programmer, and I'm new to this. I don't know C--but I have figured out how to tinker with the code. So I can make the game easier to play by making little changes to how it displays data. If I do nothing else with RIS, I can do this.
- This is low-hanging fruit--it doesn't take much of a code change to make a noticeable difference. So I get lots of bang for the buck. I can make probably a couple dozen little changes here and there for the amount of effort it would take to implement a substantial enhancement request.
- Making these little changes all over the place is helping me get acquainted with the RIS code. So I'll be much better able to handle making big changes when I get around to trying to tackle them.
Lunar_Lander
New member
Hey Leon, great to see you here and I like the new features (it is really annoying to have split crews because of people leaving). Maybe it would be good if there are two people who have left and the other two people who had been their co-pilots (in a two-man crew), when these two are put together into a new crew, that they don't need one more turn of Capsule training (because they had been in crews already). What do you think?
Urwumpe
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I could need a new name for my little project..."Race into Space Online" isn't really fitting to the developments anymore.
Switched from ASCII graphics to Irrlicht/Irrklang, also the game will now become real-time instead of turn-based. Still retains the space-tourism outline, but the central game engine in the background could also run different scenarios in theory, as long as the main game play is retained. Also has the advantage that I could add a first person view to it, which could in my wildest dreams allow flying your own spacecraft and train for it. But that is a long way to go. Thought it is maybe easier to get collaborators (later), if the game looks good.
Switched from ASCII graphics to Irrlicht/Irrklang, also the game will now become real-time instead of turn-based. Still retains the space-tourism outline, but the central game engine in the background could also run different scenarios in theory, as long as the main game play is retained. Also has the advantage that I could add a first person view to it, which could in my wildest dreams allow flying your own spacecraft and train for it. But that is a long way to go. Thought it is maybe easier to get collaborators (later), if the game looks good.
Race Into Space Online
Yeah, and I'm not sure "Race Into Space Online" is all that advisable a title--it might get confused with the Race Into Space project, the successor to BARIS. And RIS/BARIS is a strategic/management level of game, vs. Orbiter and (apparently) your project being more tactical/piloting level.
Yeah, and I'm not sure "Race Into Space Online" is all that advisable a title--it might get confused with the Race Into Space project, the successor to BARIS. And RIS/BARIS is a strategic/management level of game, vs. Orbiter and (apparently) your project being more tactical/piloting level.
Urwumpe
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Actually not that, its still strategy, but the similarities to BARIS are really microscopic, especially because its not turn based. I search something more suitable. I am damn sure "Space Tycoon" is already taken by some strange IP laws, so I need to be more creative... "Apogee" is sounding also like it is already taken, which means being MUCH more creative. I should maybe name it "Battlecruiser 2015 AD"... :lol: ...and flame critics.
Its no flight-sim as well it would just have a tiny flight-sim like mode, pretty much like Dungeon Keeper 2 having a FPS mode, while being primarily RTS. I just like Gerne cross-overs. Who spends too much time flying in the simulator, will likely loose the game, but if you use this mode you could maybe push the luck a bit more, like flying a test flight yourself in the (not so wrong) hope of being better than an Artificial Intelligence NPC. The focus will remain on developing the vehicles, flying yourself comes second.
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New Name
Oh, ok. Someone once suggested the name Buzz Aldrin's Race For Space, which of course would be B.A.R.F.S. :rofl:
Actually, I think Apogee is used already, not by a game but by a game manufacturer. Whether that counts as "already used" for the game I'm not sure, but it might be better to avoid potential trouble.
How about Max Q, or "Through Max Q"?
Oh, ok. Someone once suggested the name Buzz Aldrin's Race For Space, which of course would be B.A.R.F.S. :rofl:
Actually, I think Apogee is used already, not by a game but by a game manufacturer. Whether that counts as "already used" for the game I'm not sure, but it might be better to avoid potential trouble.
How about Max Q, or "Through Max Q"?
The origin of RIS was the boardgame "liftoff" by Fritz Brunner. This wasn't the breakthrugh. So Mr. Brunner wanted a computer game, believing that computer-gamer are more willing to try something new.
In an later version he wanted a space-voage to mars and a lunar base (Project lunex, see www.astronautix.com), since there where rumors in the USA to do so, if the UDSSR reach the moon.
The game (behind the user-interface) uses simply random events (multiple dice), to decide if something go wrong.
I have both versions, disk and cd (this is only improved by better music and videos instead of pictures). Also the "RIS Companion" (Osborne McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-07-881938-5) witch describe the inner workings of the game.
That what is supposed in this tread, had to be in an similar manner in most ways. But then you need launcher and spaceships witch can run in trouble.
At this time only the mercury project have some failure modes. But it is far behind the possebilitys of RIS:
Launch failures:
- explosion on the lauchpad
- " during ascend
- failure of the launch abort system
- unable to reach a orbit
In-flight failures:
o supposed breaking off mission:
- radio went down
- subsytem went down
- computer glich
- hardware don't power on (sattelites and LM)
- crew sickness
- retro-rocket's don't fire (in case of Apollo and Soijus the main engine)
o supposed failures during landing:
- heat shied doesn't protect or only partially
- parachute doesn't open
- hard/off target landing (witch will harm the astro-/cosmonaut)
That are only a few variants off all.
So, what is needed here are space-booter and spaceships/-planes witch consists of "real" equipment, that may fail. Upgrading of existing vehicles may be an soloution. But how about an "UCPARTS" of space-hardware/software? Ok, there must be restrictions, otherwise there would be rather strange vessels. And when the parts are selected, there must be an automatic calculation, whether the desired orbit can be achieved or not.
The strategie part may be:
- developing/researching hardware/software:
- main-engines, stages e.g.
Like the game "oldtimer". When it was historical possible, you can build a 4-cylinder inline-engine instead of a 2-cylinder, but an odd thing with higher weight an more fuel-consumption (Look at Henry Ford's racing car 999!).
- announce missions
not limited by lauchpads but by the "money" you have=1pad, 6 missions/year and the possiblity of your contractor, to deliver the hardware. Rushing could be hazardous due a higher possiblity of a breakdown and a mutch more expensive launch. "Money" can be earned by reaching milestones and lifting cormmercial/military satellites and probes as carrying personal and supply to an space-station/moon-base of an other party. Even someone else's experiments (University and so on) on a space-station could earn "money".
The most important at last:
You need people to fly these missions. Changes to the original are possible but restricted, if you want a "space race".
- I suppose a server, witch can track the spaceships from every party simultaneously (Coordinates must come from the slave [player]) and give a back coordinates of spaceships of the player's party. Also coordinates of spaceships from other partys are distributed (due not displayed on the slave). Informations of succsesses of the other partys must be public, too. In this way docking-attempts of gemini-like spacecrafts and so on can be simulated. While the player is in the vincitiy of an spaceship of an other party, he can see it.
There have to be multiple games on the server at once in a space race, otherwise have too many people to wait (years!!!) to take part in this game. Because this is next to impossible, i suggest an open world rather than a space race.
- There have to be an ground-control witch consits of all party-members currently not flying a mission. Think of a sentence like "Houston, we have a problem..." (APU-fail e.g.). Then the ground-control could launch a rescue mission.
- If an space-traveller is injured, he is for 2 month suspended from the flight-rooster. By "dying" this player have to create a new character, who have to proof himself in the party once more (simple missions in the beginning, even co-pilot possible). This will force the player for save procedures, rather then to crash on the moon's surface an thinking: Ok, then I try this mission again.
- Coordination of the spacetravellers in a multiperson-craft like Gemini/Apollo e.g. through teamspeak/skype or chat.
- Buy an error of the hardware/software of the spaceship there have to be an message to the players for an "instant action" (on the same day).
This all means: It's an realtime event. No time-warp is possible. So if a crew of three travelling to the moon it takes 5 days. When a midcoarse burn, landing and so on have to be done, the same three have to "meet" again on the server to carry out the mission. Imagine what happens if you want to go to mars...
In an later version he wanted a space-voage to mars and a lunar base (Project lunex, see www.astronautix.com), since there where rumors in the USA to do so, if the UDSSR reach the moon.
The game (behind the user-interface) uses simply random events (multiple dice), to decide if something go wrong.
I have both versions, disk and cd (this is only improved by better music and videos instead of pictures). Also the "RIS Companion" (Osborne McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-07-881938-5) witch describe the inner workings of the game.
That what is supposed in this tread, had to be in an similar manner in most ways. But then you need launcher and spaceships witch can run in trouble.
At this time only the mercury project have some failure modes. But it is far behind the possebilitys of RIS:
Launch failures:
- explosion on the lauchpad
- " during ascend
- failure of the launch abort system
- unable to reach a orbit
In-flight failures:
o supposed breaking off mission:
- radio went down
- subsytem went down
- computer glich
- hardware don't power on (sattelites and LM)
- crew sickness
- retro-rocket's don't fire (in case of Apollo and Soijus the main engine)
o supposed failures during landing:
- heat shied doesn't protect or only partially
- parachute doesn't open
- hard/off target landing (witch will harm the astro-/cosmonaut)
That are only a few variants off all.
So, what is needed here are space-booter and spaceships/-planes witch consists of "real" equipment, that may fail. Upgrading of existing vehicles may be an soloution. But how about an "UCPARTS" of space-hardware/software? Ok, there must be restrictions, otherwise there would be rather strange vessels. And when the parts are selected, there must be an automatic calculation, whether the desired orbit can be achieved or not.
The strategie part may be:
- developing/researching hardware/software:
- main-engines, stages e.g.
Like the game "oldtimer". When it was historical possible, you can build a 4-cylinder inline-engine instead of a 2-cylinder, but an odd thing with higher weight an more fuel-consumption (Look at Henry Ford's racing car 999!).
- announce missions
not limited by lauchpads but by the "money" you have=1pad, 6 missions/year and the possiblity of your contractor, to deliver the hardware. Rushing could be hazardous due a higher possiblity of a breakdown and a mutch more expensive launch. "Money" can be earned by reaching milestones and lifting cormmercial/military satellites and probes as carrying personal and supply to an space-station/moon-base of an other party. Even someone else's experiments (University and so on) on a space-station could earn "money".
The most important at last:
You need people to fly these missions. Changes to the original are possible but restricted, if you want a "space race".
- I suppose a server, witch can track the spaceships from every party simultaneously (Coordinates must come from the slave [player]) and give a back coordinates of spaceships of the player's party. Also coordinates of spaceships from other partys are distributed (due not displayed on the slave). Informations of succsesses of the other partys must be public, too. In this way docking-attempts of gemini-like spacecrafts and so on can be simulated. While the player is in the vincitiy of an spaceship of an other party, he can see it.
There have to be multiple games on the server at once in a space race, otherwise have too many people to wait (years!!!) to take part in this game. Because this is next to impossible, i suggest an open world rather than a space race.
- There have to be an ground-control witch consits of all party-members currently not flying a mission. Think of a sentence like "Houston, we have a problem..." (APU-fail e.g.). Then the ground-control could launch a rescue mission.
- If an space-traveller is injured, he is for 2 month suspended from the flight-rooster. By "dying" this player have to create a new character, who have to proof himself in the party once more (simple missions in the beginning, even co-pilot possible). This will force the player for save procedures, rather then to crash on the moon's surface an thinking: Ok, then I try this mission again.
- Coordination of the spacetravellers in a multiperson-craft like Gemini/Apollo e.g. through teamspeak/skype or chat.
- Buy an error of the hardware/software of the spaceship there have to be an message to the players for an "instant action" (on the same day).
This all means: It's an realtime event. No time-warp is possible. So if a crew of three travelling to the moon it takes 5 days. When a midcoarse burn, landing and so on have to be done, the same three have to "meet" again on the server to carry out the mission. Imagine what happens if you want to go to mars...
N_Molson
Addon Developer
I love the "XMS-2 Mini-shuttle", even if it is probably the less realistic ship. It's an expensive program, but it's very safe (especially on landings) and since you can re-use the shuttles, it's really cost-effective after a few flights !
However, I can't figure how you can fit 3 astronauts in it, and I dont see where you could put a docking port for the LM !
The videos you see in-game show the X-24A, which was an experimental (1-manned) lifting-body.
However, I can't figure how you can fit 3 astronauts in it, and I dont see where you could put a docking port for the LM !
The videos you see in-game show the X-24A, which was an experimental (1-manned) lifting-body.
BARIS
Adiu, N_Molson, quin va? Actually, BARIS/RIS shows the HL-10 and M2-F3 for the XMS-2 (and Lapot). But you're right that in the board game Liftoff, the US shuttle was called X-24. They changed the name for BARIS because the X-24 was the name of a real aircraft.
Albatros, there were a couple other things that were improved in the CD version. The Max R&D of the Mercury and Gemini was raised a few points, and spacecraft were made more reliable. Gemini and Voskhod were suicidal approaches to the Moon in the floppy version, but they're very doable in the CD version. Also, in the floppy version you almost always lost 2 or 3 lunar flyby probes before you succeeded, and 1 or 2 landing probes before you succeeded in landing. That's not the case in the CD version--it removed the penalty that the floppy version seems to have had.
Adiu, N_Molson, quin va? Actually, BARIS/RIS shows the HL-10 and M2-F3 for the XMS-2 (and Lapot). But you're right that in the board game Liftoff, the US shuttle was called X-24. They changed the name for BARIS because the X-24 was the name of a real aircraft.
Albatros, there were a couple other things that were improved in the CD version. The Max R&D of the Mercury and Gemini was raised a few points, and spacecraft were made more reliable. Gemini and Voskhod were suicidal approaches to the Moon in the floppy version, but they're very doable in the CD version. Also, in the floppy version you almost always lost 2 or 3 lunar flyby probes before you succeeded, and 1 or 2 landing probes before you succeeded in landing. That's not the case in the CD version--it removed the penalty that the floppy version seems to have had.
The XMS-2 video show's a HL10. A single-manned aerodymaicle test-, and not an supposed 3-man-vehicle. Even dyna-soar was single-manned, due to the fact, that it was a bomber.
Using the XMS2 really it's good, but for great costs in R&D.
For mine, the disk-version was mutch easyer to accomplish. But it's
maybe, you are right. I most use Apollo/Soijus for the moon. Only when i have great advantages i use spiral/dyna-soar for an approch to the moon.
But have you tried to go further in space-mission-goals? If you are one step forward of the opponent, and try for the next: If you are equal it is not an problem. But when you are one step in front, the mission will be an disaster. Because the program want to have an "space race" after all.
So most moon-walks will appear after the year 1970, and with it a weakend economy of your contry as well as the opponed side.
---------- Post added 9th Jun 2010 at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was 8th Jun 2010 at 11:50 PM ----------
The XMS-2 video show's a HL10. A single-manned aerodymaicle test-, and not an supposed 3-man-vehicle. Even dyna-soar was single-manned, due to the fact, that it was a bomber.
Using the XMS2 really it's good, but for great costs in R&D.
For mine, the disk-version was mutch easyer to accomplish. But it's
maybe, you are right. I most use Apollo/Soijus for the moon. Only when i have great advantages i use spiral/dyna-soar for an approch to the moon.
But have you tried to go further in space-mission-goals? If you are one step forward of the opponent, and try for the next: If you are equal it is not an problem. But when you are one step in front, the mission will be an disaster. Because the program want to have an "space race" after all.
So most moon-walks will appear after the year 1970, and with it a weakend economy of your contry as well as the opponed side.
Using the XMS2 really it's good, but for great costs in R&D.
For mine, the disk-version was mutch easyer to accomplish. But it's
maybe, you are right. I most use Apollo/Soijus for the moon. Only when i have great advantages i use spiral/dyna-soar for an approch to the moon.
But have you tried to go further in space-mission-goals? If you are one step forward of the opponent, and try for the next: If you are equal it is not an problem. But when you are one step in front, the mission will be an disaster. Because the program want to have an "space race" after all.
So most moon-walks will appear after the year 1970, and with it a weakend economy of your contry as well as the opponed side.
---------- Post added 9th Jun 2010 at 12:27 AM ---------- Previous post was 8th Jun 2010 at 11:50 PM ----------
The XMS-2 video show's a HL10. A single-manned aerodymaicle test-, and not an supposed 3-man-vehicle. Even dyna-soar was single-manned, due to the fact, that it was a bomber.
Using the XMS2 really it's good, but for great costs in R&D.
For mine, the disk-version was mutch easyer to accomplish. But it's
maybe, you are right. I most use Apollo/Soijus for the moon. Only when i have great advantages i use spiral/dyna-soar for an approch to the moon.
But have you tried to go further in space-mission-goals? If you are one step forward of the opponent, and try for the next: If you are equal it is not an problem. But when you are one step in front, the mission will be an disaster. Because the program want to have an "space race" after all.
So most moon-walks will appear after the year 1970, and with it a weakend economy of your contry as well as the opponed side.
Hey Urwumpe, I'm interested in your game.
I was thinking about a similar game, where you would
just sell satellite services. But yours is much more
thought out. Any progress?
Urwumpe
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A few backend details, like geometric primitives for handling constructions, mostly trying to find a good way to render the stuff in a good way... didn't work for about 3-4 months on it, lack of free time.
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