Science Data Transmission via Quantum Entanglement

Artlav

Aperiodic traveller
Addon Developer
Beta Tester
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
5,790
Reaction score
780
Points
203
Location
Earth
Website
orbides.org
Preferred Pronouns
she/her
O-F Staff Note: These first eleven posts were moved here from the Pluto Mission News thread.

call it post einsteinian physics allowing infinite speed if you want
Huh. That was posted on April 3rd,no?
Someone's calendar is off by a few days.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Soheil_Esy

Fazanavard فضانورد
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
744
Reaction score
19
Points
18
Huh. That was posted on April 3rd,no?
Someone's calendar is off by a few days.

Official description by China's Academy of Sciences:

Bulletin of the Chinese Academy of Sciences

Vol.30 No.3 2016 InFocus

By SONG Jianlan (Staff Report)

Quantum entanglement is a magical action through which quantum particles – photons for example – share the same state even when separated far apart.
In other words, one particle of an entangled twin can affect the action of the other afar immediately – at a speed faster than light. :lol::hailprobe:

154 Bulletin of the Chinese Academy of Sciences

http://english.cas.cn/bcas/2016_3/201611/P020161116631904021855.pdf
 

mahdavi3d

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
536
Reaction score
99
Points
43
Quantum entanglement doesn't allow faster than light communication!

 

Soheil_Esy

Fazanavard فضانورد
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
744
Reaction score
19
Points
18
Quantum entanglement doesn't allow faster than light communication!

I stopped watching as the link you provided from PBS Space Time publishes video like: "The First Humans on Mars" or "Self-Replicating Robots and Galactic Domination ".

Try instead to find more credible peer reviewed sources, such as arXiv::thumbup:


Chinese Physicists Measure Speed of “Spooky Action At a Distance”

March 7, 2013

Einstein railed against the possibility of spooky action at a distance because it violates relativity. Now Chinese physicists have clocked it travelling more than four orders of magnitude faster than light
...
The answer is that it is at least four orders of magnitude faster than light, and may still turn out to be instantaneous, as quantum mechanics predicts.

Ref: arxiv.org/abs/1303.0614: Bounding The Speed Of `Spooky Action At A Distance’
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1303.0614v1.pdf

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...measure-speed-of-spooky-action-at-a-distance/

And from Iran:

Invariance of Spooky Action at a Distance in Quantum Entanglement under Lorentz Transformation

Mohammad Sharifi

Department of Physics, University of Tehran, Iran
September 17, 2014

Abstract

We study the mechanism by which the particle-antiparticle entangled state collapses instantaneously at a distance. By making two key assumptions, we are able to show not only that instantaneous collapse of a wave function at a distance is possible but also that it is an invariant quantity under Lorentz transformation and compatible with relativity. In addition, we will be able to detect in which situation a many-body entangled system exhibits the maximum collapse speed among its entangled particles. Finally we suggest that every force in nature acts via entanglement.



https://arxiv.org/pdf/1306.6071.pdf

https://arxiv.org/abs/1306.6071
 
Last edited:

Artlav

Aperiodic traveller
Addon Developer
Beta Tester
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
5,790
Reaction score
780
Points
203
Location
Earth
Website
orbides.org
Preferred Pronouns
she/her
Except,

A. There is no such thing as "collapse of a wave function". It's an abstraction from an old interpretation, used to "normal-ise" the math for human consumption.

B. Entanglement does not transfer information. All it means is that when you measure one particle, then the other particle would have the appropriate opposite value. But you don't get to choose which value you end up with on your particle, so you can't make the other take a specific state.
 

RisingFury

OBSP developer
Addon Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
6,427
Reaction score
492
Points
173
Location
Among bits and Bytes...
Maybe you should actually read the sources you posted:

By making two key assumptions, we are able to show not only that instantaneous collapse of a wave function at a distance is possible but also that it is an invariant quantity under Lorentz transformation and compatible with relativity.

Relativity says that no information can be transmitted at faster than light.

The research you posted doesn't say anything about communication at faster than light, it just tries to determine the speed of "spooky action at a distance". The question is: Is it instant or does it have a finite speed?
 

Soheil_Esy

Fazanavard فضانورد
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
744
Reaction score
19
Points
18
Except,

Entanglement does not transfer information.


2016-08-18

The first batch of data from the world's first quantum satellite was received by Chinese scientists,

The 202 MB of data was in good quality and was transferred to China's National Space Science Center.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-08/18/c_135612083.htm


135612083_14715249061781n.jpg


34y5mvr.gif
E pur si muove :facepalm:
 

mahdavi3d

Active member
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
536
Reaction score
99
Points
43
WIKIPEDIA: Quantum Experiments at Space Scale
QUESS is a proof-of-concept mission designed to facilitate quantum optics experiments over long distances to allow the development of quantum encryption and quantum teleportation technology. Quantum encryption uses the principle of entanglement to facilitate communication that is totally safe against eavesdropping, let alone decryption, by a third party. By producing pairs of entangled photons, QUESS will allow ground stations separated by many thousands of kilometres to establish secure quantum channels.




excuse me for going off topic!
 

Col_Klonk

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
470
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
This here small Dot
Quantum entanglement doesn't allow faster than light communication!

Oh rubbish man!!
First of all light speed is undefined, and is only what we've observed so far dependent on the medium density (like any wave/particle), which does by no means, mean it's constant.

Secondly We cannot even define gravity, which I suspect is way (instantaneous) faster than light - an ideal candidate for entanglement communication, but I reckon it's pot luck as thus far our reality is a quantum average, which is like a lottery ticket with two numbers.

Academia is full of ideas, some of which bring in more money (no different for Nasa/SpaceX/BlueOrigin/etc) and thus promoted more. Invariably these ideas are wrong..yes, I'm afraid so.. and new ideas take over, and new people become the heroes of the day... it's like watching pop-stars... a dime a dozen.
:lol:.
 
Last edited:

jedidia

shoemaker without legs
Addon Developer
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
10,877
Reaction score
2,131
Points
203
Location
between the planets
I stopped watching as the link you provided from PBS Space Time publishes video like: "The First Humans on Mars" or "Self-Replicating Robots and Galactic Domination ".

Kind of a pitty that you wouldn't watch a whole channel because they feature the occasional lighthearted video, especially since they don't claim to do science, but merely to explain scientific theories to a wider public. As such they don't need peer-review. If they seriously talk about a theory, it's not theirs, and was already peer-reviewed.

For example:

The answer is that it is at least four orders of magnitude faster than light, and may still turn out to be instantaneous, as quantum mechanics predicts.

Nobody is claiming that SAD is not faster than light, and neither is PBS or veritasium. They merely point out that quantum entanglement can not be used to exchange information, because you cannot control what you're sending.

Point in case:


This is a case of quantum key distribution. The Qbits are used to generate the key to encrypt the information, which is then sent by normal data lines. The sole advantage of using Qbits for key distribution is that you will immediately know if somebody's evesdropping, because his observation of the QBits will mess up the result. This is not information exchange, however. The data transmitted via Qbits will be inherently random, which incidentally is eactly what you are looking for in an encryption key. It can be used for key distribution because you can reliably reproduce the same result on the other side when following the same measuring protocolls. So it's perfectly random, but also perfectly reproducable if measured with the same protocols, but only once. Which is absolutely perfect encryption security, but not a useful means to exchange data that should not be random.

First of all light speed is undefined, and is only what we've observed so far dependent on the medium density (like any wave/particle), which does by no means, mean it's constant.

To reiterate a phrase from the previous page: The speed of light is not about light. Light in a vacuum merely happens to travel at the speed of causality.
 
Last edited:

Thorsten

Active member
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Messages
785
Reaction score
56
Points
43
The research you posted doesn't say anything about communication at faster than light, it just tries to determine the speed of "spooky action at a distance". The question is: Is it instant or does it have a finite speed?

I'm preparing two envelopes into which I put two identical sheets of papers with a short text. One of them I give to you, the other gets shipped by Elon Musk with the first manned Mars mission. On a certain date and time, you both agree to open the envelopes.

As soon as you open your envelope, you will instantanelousy know what text Elon Musk has in his hands in this very moment - despite the fact that Mars may be half an hour lightspeed delay apart.

This deceptively looks like instantaneous information exchange, except the information hasn't been exchanged in this moment - it has laboriously been flown to Mars for six months. Only your knowledge of the information has suddenly changed.

Likewise, if you quantum entangle two particles, they have to be close. You can separate them, at which point you move the information, but you can't separate the system faster than lightspeed. Once you measure the system, what changes is not so much the physics (no energy gets exchanged, no spin gets flipped), it's your knowledge of the state.

The key thing to notice is that information here is not what you know, it's what's knowable. A newspaper has an information content even before you read it, and an entangled system transfers information even before you measure its state.

Hope that explains some of the paradoxies.

First of all light speed is undefined, and is only what we've observed so far dependent on the medium density (like any wave/particle), which does by no means, mean it's constant.

That's true but misleading - usually we refer to light speed in vacuum, and that is very well defined and one of the basic constants of nature. In a medium you get a split into phase and group velocity - but information is only carried by group velocity, and that's always slower than vacuum lightspeed.



Secondly We cannot even define gravity, which I suspect is way (instantaneous) faster than light - an ideal candidate for entanglement communication, but I reckon it's pot luck as thus far our reality is a quantum average, which is like a lottery ticket with two numbers.

In General Relativity, gravity waves propagate with vacuum lightspeed. So do gravitons in leading order Quantum Gravity theories. That's all rather important for causality to work, and causality is... sort of... really important, which is why theories with anything in them usually face great problems explaining a universe that's anywhere close to what we observe.

You can of course always hope for the next theory, but since causality is a cornerstone of our world, it's probably not going to happen.

Btw: Concluding that because we cannot define gravity that it is way faster than light is faulty reasoning - there are no valid conclusions you can draw from not understanding something about its nature.
 
Last edited:
Top