Launch News (Failure) Phobos-Grunt and YingHuo-1 atop Zenit-2 on November 8/9, 2011

Cosmic Penguin

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A case study of software problems on another Mars probe...

I remembered a similar software issue that nearly crippled another Mars mission several years ago.

Back in January 2004, just 16 days after the Spirit rover landed on Mars, it suddenly stopped responding to commands from Earth. For more than 2 days there was only one single telemetry downlink from the rover, and the data was garbled. Then just two minutes after signal acquisition, it stopped. Several attempts to communicate with the rover was unsuccessful for more than two days. It was not until more than three days later when it sent enough data to Earth that it can be concluded that the rover triggered a safe mode condition, but the initial attempts to command it to downlink telemetry and shut down the instruments were unsuccessful. Another day would pass before engineers could determine the issue is in the flash memory system: it got corrupted during a routine health check. They then issued commands to bypass the flash memory system and shut it down, and the rover finally achieved full command after five days. (Detailed information can be found here and in Steve Squires' book Roving Mars)

I cannot help but to compare the current issue with Phobos-Grunt with this case. In both cases the communication link was suddenly lost; no communication occurred and control was lost for days; only a short signal can be heard from both spacecrafts; there are limited communication windows (though I think it is slightly better in the case of Spirit); the antennas were not pointing in the optimum place for communication; the hints at both spacecraft went into safe modes due to re-booting of the computers. Of course there are many differences (I believe the situation for Phobos-Grunt is a bit more severe, particularly as it is being in a low Earth orbit, which is a place that is less tolerant for trouble-shooting and attitude control), but as an amateur I would say that it is too early to claim defeat just yet. While I am not sure how many redundancies the Russians have put in the spacecraft's control system software (and hardware), if they have enough hacks in place (just like the MER team did) they might have a chance of salvaging the mission. So fingers crossed! :)
 

Ark

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Well, all hope is not lost. We can always try to get a Shuttle mission up to fix it like we did with Hubb--

Oh, right. Nevermind.
 

Cosmic Penguin

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Well, all hope is not lost. We can always try to get a Shuttle mission up to fix it like we did with Hubb--

Oh, right. Nevermind.

Yeah, with the current orbit being at 206 x 338 km, 51.4° (roughly equivalent to the standard injection orbit for Soyuz/Progress/ATV/HTV/Dragon/Cygnus/Shenzhou missions), we don't need shuttles: just send any of these spacecrafts to dock with Phobos-Grunt, and send it to a higher orbit so that the Russians can figure out if a Soyuz mission is needed to save the mis---

Nevermind.
 

Codz

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:lol:Yeah training cosmonauts for a very complex mission in under 2 days? Not gonna happen.
 
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Dive

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Автор: Filipp
Опубликовано: Ноя 11 2011 - 01:37
Заголовок: re: Почему нет новостей?
Аппарат не отвечает не смотря на все попытки связаться с ним. Дальнейшие попытки связи будут продолжаться, на скорее всего уже ничего не изменить.
My very poor translation:
Author: Filipp
Posted: Nov 11, 01:37
Topic: re: Why there is no news ?
The satelite does not answer, in spite of all our attempts to contact with it. We will continue our attempts to contact, but it seems like we can't change anything.

Damn :( Hopes are fading. But i still believe.
 
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agentgonzo

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This is such a shame. sample-return from Phobos would have been a fantastic result but to not even get out of LEO and watch P-G reenter the atmosphere after barely getting off the starting blocks is a tragedy. I really hope they can tease it back to life but I sincerely doubt that they'll be able to. Such a shame. :-( This hasn't been the best few months for spaceflight recently.
 

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Let's wish a better fate to the upcoming launch of Mars Exploration Laboratory. :hailprobe:

We obviously made the Probe angry. May It's infinite benevolence spare us from other failures this year.

:hailprobe::hailprobe::hailprobe:
 

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agentgonzo said:
This hasn't been the best few months for spaceflight recently.

Well, the year 2011 was partially really sad.
US: Shuttle is retired, new manned program is sad and nearly as worse as the US healthcare system.
Besides the standard satellite-launches there are of course the interplanetary/moon missions, GRAIL and Juno launches were good and the MSL will be the last important launch of the year. Dawn and Messenger entered orbit.
US result: manned spaceflight: last shuttle missions were great, future is bad
unmanned spaceflight: good, only the HTV-failure, but that's DoD stuff and not science...

Russia: Progress failure was bad, but if Soyuz TMA-22 is up there in a week everything is more or less OK. Fobos-Grunt is of course sad...
Russia result: Not the best year, problems with Progress/Soyuz and Fobos-Grunt failed...

China: Proofed a high reliability (in my mind is just one failure this year), Tiangong-1 and Shenzou-8 (until now), great. Just there mars orbiter is sad, but it's not their fault.
China result: Great year, first station, first docking, a lot of successful launches

Private sector: A lot of development and testing of course, but no(?) flights this year, SS2 finished tests, Dragon will fly in January 2012, but not a big leap forward.


So taken as a whole, the "old" states (Russia and the US) had a sad year while China is progressing (unlike Progress M12-M, bad joke is bad).
 

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Some interesting details are made clear by NK forum admins, Shin and Liss. They've published series of scans from a technical "two-volume" paper on Phobos-Grunt design published by Lavochkin inc., the editorial office owns. They include description of post-separation sequences and radio equipment of the probe.

Liss has summed up what quite apparently seems the fatal design flaws:

1. In LEO the spacecraft can only transmit telemetry in C-band with RPT111 transmitter. Plus, measuring of orbital position can be done through combo of ground means and onboard responder device 38G6.

2. Only in the first intermediate orbit, after the first boosting burn is done, thanks to decreased tracking angle change rate a possibility to lock on it with ground X-band antennae appears, which condition allows for a dual side communication with the spacecraft radio assembly.

3. The only planned communication exchange in the intermediate orbit had a purpose to input corrected values for the second boosting burn; however, in reality, in case of abnormality, only scrubbing of the second burn was possible due to time shortage.

4. The second burn was intended to boost the spacecraft into highly elliptical orbit at which it should be preparing for the third, final, ejecting boost.

5. Issuing commands to the spacecraft in LEO was not provided for altogether. Ground antennas cannot track it while it is moving this fast. All, what is being now, are makeshift attempts to do just something.

Now it is more understandable... :(
 

SiberianTiger

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Vovan at NK forum (a retired ground infrastructure engineer from Baikonur) has doubts that any ground transmitters in Baikonur can send commands to PhG via X-band:

I'm disappointed after I'm said today that the only Kub-Kontur station at Baikonur that could transmit commands to Phobos-Grunt, had been pillaged as early as in 2007. I also held a hope for IP-5 "Saturn" which they promised to outfit with Spektr-X device, but they are saying it can only serve as downlink. :cry:
It turns out, Baikonur is really unable to send any commands to the probe, and only can sweep the sky with "Daisy" antenna at IP-1.
 

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One semi-crazy idea that's being discussed by posters at NK forum is that given the burn sequence should be triggered by energy-independent onboard clock device which was set to work in Moscow Decreted Time (like all Russian spacecraft), the time mark might come one hour late because the clock moved itself off daylight saving hour, while it shouldn't have...

This year is first when Russia abandons DST transitions and Moscow stays permanently in UTC+4...

upd: They are saying it may be close to reality if somehow an industry standard imported RTC chip were used.
 
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Urwumpe

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So it was really a "what can go wrong, will eventually go wrong" situation? In which somebody simply assumed that all will work fine without having a Plan B in hand?
 

SiberianTiger

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So it was really a "what can go wrong, will eventually go wrong" situation? In which somebody simply assumed that all will work fine without having a Plan B in hand?

Well, Fregat upper stages has flown tens of times boosting in blind zones with no input from the ground, and they probably assumed that this new bird would be just as lucky.
 

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One semi-crazy idea that's being discussed by posters at NK forum is that given the burn sequence should be triggered by energy-independent onboard clock device which was set to work in Moscow Decreted Time (like all Russian spacecraft), the time mark might come one hour late because the clock moved itself off daylight saving hour, while it shouldn't have...

This year is first when Russia abandons DST transitions and Moscow stays permanently in UTC+4...

upd: They are saying it may be close to reality if somehow an industry standard imported RTC chip were used.

This isn't crazy at second thought. Remember [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter"]Mars Climate Orbiter[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosmos_419"]Kosmos 419[/ame]? :facepalm:
 

SiberianTiger

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zorro at NK forum wrote:

During ground tests the onboard computer worked for no more than 6 hours before hanging. Last patch was applied at Baikonur. My question is, why had we to launch an inoperable spacecraft?

Attention: this is an unconfirmed information delivered by an anonymous poster!
 

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Did they build two units for this project?
I would imagine the cost of simultaneously building two identical spacecraft hardware would be dwarfed by the development and realization of the total project. I mean, when you have completed the designs, planning, etc, would it make much difference in cost if you build one or two units? The physical hardware and construction surely aren't the biggest expense in such a project?

Although the launch vehicle and launch operations itself will still be expensive doing twice.

My general question remains:
Does anyone know what the norm is on building identical backup hardware in current day spaceflight industry?
There probably are different norms on science projects, versus commercial satellites?

regards,
mcduck
 
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SiberianTiger

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Did they build two units for this project?

No, only one. It was supposed to become a pilot spacecraft in a family of modern interplanetary probes.

fobos_12.jpg
 

Urwumpe

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No, only one. It was supposed to become a pilot spacecraft in a family of modern interplanetary probes.

I would say, it won't become it now. Not that the idea is bad, it was in good soviet/Russian tradition. It simply failed at the wrong time.
 
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