Question First sub-orbital launch

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Ive recently been doing some research on an interesting historical question in spaceflight. Most of us here at the forums are familiar with enough space history to know that Sputnik was the first man-made object in orbit, Gargarin was the first human in space (prior to any sub-orbital manned launches), but what was the first man-made object in space period? The only reference Ive been able to find is a sketchy uncited mention on wikipedia that credits a V2 test launch,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-orbital_spaceflight

I was wondering if anyone here knows the answer to my question? It seems like an awfully significant event, but accounts on the subject are very hard to find.

 

[Urwumpe]

Had been a V2/A4 test launch. The fourth launch named V-4 of a A4 on October 3, 1942 already passed 85 km and thus entered space by the US definition, later launches also reached the 100 km altitude line. During US flights after the war, the unmodified A4 reached 120 km altitude according to radar measurements.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Had been a V2/A4 test launch. The fourth launch named V-4 of a A4 on October 3, 1942 already passed 85 km and thus entered space by the US definition, later launches also reached the 100 km altitude line. During US flights after the war, the unmodified A4 reached 120 km altitude according to radar measurements.

I always considered 100k the "space line", as any orbit below it is usually doomed by friction but the 85k is pretty close. Why is it so hard to find information on the subject?

 

[Urwumpe]

I always considered 100k the "space line", as any orbit below it is usually doomed by friction but the 85k is pretty close. Why is it so hard to find information on the subject?

No idea. it took me only a few seconds to find the test flight data.

 

[MattBaker]

Astronautix gives an apogee of 112 km for two american tests in May 1946.

The problem is probably that it's much easier to fire that thing than tracking it exactly. Also the Nazis probably didn't give out technical details about their Wunderwaffe including flight data, I guess.

 

[garyw]

Had been a V2/A4 test launch. The fourth launch named V-4 of a A4 on October 3, 1942 already passed 85 km and thus entered space by the US definition, later launches also reached the 100 km altitude line. During US flights after the war, the unmodified A4 reached 120 km altitude according to radar measurements.

V2 certainly touched 100km and passed through space, there is quite a bit of history on the V2 in the Imperial war museum in London. I'll see if I can dig out the photos I took when I was there a few months ago.

Unsurprisingly, London has quite a bit of info on the V2!

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

V2 certainly touched 100km and passed through space, there is quite a bit of history on the V2 in the Imperial war museum in London. I'll see if I can dig out the photos I took when I was there a few months ago.

Unsurprisingly, London has quite a bit of info on the V2!

I would appreciate anything you can get for me. Its a shame I never asked my great aunt who died 2 years ago. She lived in britain at the time of the war & might have known a bit about the V2 attacks.

 

[Unstung]

Shortly after the war, the United States used captured V2 rockets for peaceful purposes. It sent the first animals (fruit flies) to space and took the first picture from space in 1946 (NASA says 1947):

(October 24, 1946; 105 km/65 mi)

(March 7, 1947)

(footage that produced the 1946 image)​

The US also modified V2 rockets called Bumper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumper_(rocket)

Additional sources:
http://www.nasa.gov/news/highlights/john_mengel_pioneer.html
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/449089main_White_Sands_Missile_Range_Fact_Sheet.pdf
http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exploration/FEATURE-FirstPhoto.html

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Shortly after the war, the United States used captured V2 rockets for peaceful purposes. It sent the first animals (fruit flies) to space and took the first picture from space in 1946 (NASA says 1947):

(October 24, 1946; 105 km/65 mi)

(March 7, 1947)
First Footage of Space (above 100 kilometers) - 1946

(footage that produced the 1946 image)​

The US also modified V2 rockets called Bumper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumper_(rocket)

Additional sources:
http://www.nasa.gov/news/highlights/john_mengel_pioneer.html
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/449089main_White_Sands_Missile_Range_Fact_Sheet.pdf
http://www.airspacemag.com/space-exploration/FEATURE-FirstPhoto.html

Thanks for posting that. Is it just me, or are the two photos not absolutely chilling in a weird way?

 

[4throck]

Did you try the excellent V2 add-on by Igel ? Those post war tests are simulated :thumbup:

and also this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC6BJtyFf-s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC6BJtyFf-s[/ame]

Nice views of stands/pads/infrastructure.

 

[gwiz]

Had been a V2/A4 test launch. The fourth launch named V-4 of a A4 on October 3, 1942 already passed 85 km and thus entered space by the US definition, later launches also reached the 100 km altitude line. During US flights after the war, the unmodified A4 reached 120 km altitude according to radar measurements.

I can't lay my hands on any details, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that one wartime V-2 suffered guidance failure and went straight up. Maximum altitude was over 100 miles.

 

[Urwumpe]

I can't lay my hands on any details, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that one wartime V-2 suffered guidance failure and went straight up. Maximum altitude was over 100 miles.

Can't find any confirmation there, but should also be unlikely to exist, since there had been no test-flight instrumentation for combat launches. All that is at least a bit documented are the test flights, and these even had some deficits in tracking and instrumentation (mostly recorded was how accurate it was hitting the target, not the full trajectory).

But it is confirmed that a B-24 crew really managed to shoot down a V-2 during launch.

 

[4throck]

I have a love / hate relationship with the V2.

It's a beautiful sounding rocket AND a terrible weapon...

Can't quite make my mind about it.


Nevertheless, the piloted version (and projected developments) would make interesting sub-orbital vehicles:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/a9a10.htm

Of course, there was no way to land, because the mass was taken up by the explosives! But if we envision peaceful usage, perhaps a landing gear could be fitted.

 

[garyw]

And here we go, sorry for the delay, been having a clear out and couldn't find the photos.

The best I can do do for specs are these:

General

Length: 46 ft.
Wingspan: 11.7 ft.
Diameter: 5.4 ft.
Loaded Weight: 27,580 lbs.

Performance

Power Plant: Rocket
Range: 200 miles
Max Speed: 3,545 mph
Ceiling: 55 mi. (88km)

Armament

Warhead: 2,200 lbs. Amatol

 

[Urwumpe]

i have a old german manual for it on my ext hdd which is pretty interesting reading.

 

[Sunhillow]

It can be found there:
http://www.aggregat4.de/A4_Fibel.html
... but without translation

 

[FADEC]

I always considered 100k the "space line", as any orbit below it is usually doomed by friction but the 85k is pretty close. Why is it so hard to find information on the subject?

Well, the imagination of "here on earth" and "up in space" is old-fashioned in my imagination anyway. Actually we are nowhere else than right in the middle of space already on earth - the earth is a part of it, not next to it or "below" it.

We are just protected from vacuum (and certain other things) by the atmosphere. And related to this, there are two "space lines" IMHO, aside from official deifinitions: a "human" one, and an orbital one.

The human space line already begins at an altitude at which your blood will boil if you don't wear a pressure suit. So it's not entirely wrong when the media reports that Kittinger and Baumgartner jumped from the "edge of space". As Kittinger said in an interview not too long ago: for the human body it already is the edge of space.

The orbital one begins at an altitude at which orbits are more or less stable. Which I think is 150Km. But at that altitude the atmosphere still does not end "suddenly".

This is why I personally have no use for the official 50Km (old I think) or 100Km definition of space.

 

[C3PO]

The orbital one begins at an altitude at which orbits are more or less stable. Which I think is 150Km. But at that altitude the atmosphere still does not end "suddenly".

This is why I personally have no use for the official 50Km (old I think) or 100Km definition of space.

IIRC the 100 km limit was chosen because that's roughly the altitude you need for a stable orbit for at least 24 hours.

 

[Urwumpe]

IIRC the 100 km limit was chosen because that's roughly the altitude you need for a stable orbit for at least 24 hours.

Thats wrong. 110 km (89 minutes period) would already mean reentry before the orbit is complete.

The Karman line is chosen because it is the altitude, at which a plane, which keeps altitude by lift, would have to reach orbital velocity, regardless of its aerodynamic configuration.

 

[MattBaker]

Thats wrong. 110 km (89 minutes period) would already mean reentry before the orbit is complete.

Have to agree with Urwumpe here, if I remember correctly from Phobos-Grunt and all the other stuff that came down in the last two years the last orbit always had an altitude around 120 km - 125 km.